Part 39 of Post Your Tough Questions Regarding Christianity

There are many people who would testify to the "truthfulness" of the conman until they realized they've been conned.

 

There are conmen. But doesn't make everyone a conman.

 

Gawd and others like him share the same faulty reasoning, which is just typical of an unbeliever, nothing surprising there. I believe what Scripture tells us, in that the minds of these unbelievers have been blinded by the devil who is the god of this world. They are unable to see the glorious light of the Good News or anything else regarding the Holy Bible that's why time and time again I've witnessed Gawd, and many others misinterpret Scripture so badly because the devil has indeed blinded their minds to the point that their reading comprehension is just plain awful where they misinterpret Scripture so badly.

I truly believe exorcisms will help them get the devil's demons out of their minds.

We Read in Scripture:

4 Satan, who is the god of this world, has blinded the minds of those who don’t believe. They are unable to see the glorious light of the Good News. They don’t understand this message about the glory of Christ, who is the exact likeness of God. 5 You see, we don’t go around preaching about ourselves. We preach that Jesus Christ is Lord, and we ourselves are your servants for Jesus’ sake. 2 Corinthians 4:4-5 NLT

You're welcome, Brother Injeun and as always thanks for all your contributions to this thread. God Bless!

 

Joseph Smith translated the BOM about two hundred years ago. It was dug up in New York. In the final chapters of the book, it is dedicated to the Lamanites who were brothers to the Nephites but were separated from them by the Lamanites unbelief in God. So it was assumed to be native Americans in the region. It was also assumed from information in the early part of the book that the original landing of the people on this continent was near the narrow land between south and central America. The book itself spans about a thousand years, 600 BC to 400 AD. In 400 AD it was buried by Moroni, a Nephite in the area now known as New York. And remained so until Joseph Smith was visited by the Angel Moroni and shown where to find it.

 

That's true. And I may actually have a bridge to sell you. It's technically possible despite a complete lack of evidence or credibility, sure.

 

So he claimed. Why are you stating it as if it is true?

Why should anyone accept it as any more factual than claims about Zeus, Ganesh, or "how the eagle got its wings"?

 

That's the timeline. And I believe the testimony because I know that God lives and that the LDS Missionaries are his servants. Therefore Joseph Smith, the Church and all the scriptures, including the Bible are true, because God is God and he doesn't lie. I know that sounds far fetched and much to swallow. But what can I say....I'm a convert.

 

And you REALLY believe that? Incredible. You do know the meaning of the name Moroni don't you. It comes from the Greek and means 'The one who tricks others'.

 

Joseph Smith and his followers appear to be so caught inside the USA #1 nationalism bubble that even Jesus isn't good enough because he's a foreigner. He also wouldn't have been white, which I bet is/was another stumbling block for them.

 

No I don't know that. In the book, he was named by his Father (whose name was Mormon) in honor of a former great Nephite general and man of God who was named Moroni. So you think that the genius farm boy put that little Easter egg in there from the beginning out of compassion for his fellow man and as an excuse to exonerate himself from prosecution. Like, hey I tried to warn you that it was all just a joke? Does the joke also command the will of the unknown/unseen God to send his spirit to move the hearts of the ignorant and unrefined, and awaken them to a remembrance of him, in spite of never even having read the book? That's some mighty mojo.

 

An uneducated boy be able to read and transcribe golden tablets, then to write the BOM?

Before Joseph could fulfil the task of restoring the Church it was necessary for him to get the authority to do it. This authority could come only from God.

In 1829 Joseph was visited by John the Baptist. The Baptist laid hands on the heads of Smith and his colleague Oliver Cowdery and gave them the authority of the Aaronic Priesthood. ?????????????????? Really

Soon afterwards, the Apostles James, Peter, and John appeared to Joseph and Oliver and gave them the authority of the Melchizedek Priesthood. ???????????????? REALLY

Isn't that taking the mythical characters of the Bible for Mormonism. Mohammed did that for Islam

Nephite general and man of God who was named Moroni? I thought Moroni was an angel.

Michael Coe, a scholar in pre-Columbian Mesoamerican history, as well as the Smithsonian Institution.
In 1973, Coe addressed the issue in an article for Dialogue: A Journal of Mormon Thought:

Mormon archaeologists over the years have almost unanimously accepted the Book of Mormon as an accurate, historical account of the New World peoples. ... Let me now state uncategorically that as far as I know there is not one professionally trained archaeologist, who is not a Mormon, who sees any scientific justification for believing the foregoing to be true, and I would like to state that there are quite a few Mormon archaeologists who join this group. ... The bare facts of the matter are that nothing, absolutely nothing, has even shown up in any New World excavation which would suggest to a dispassionate observer that the Book of Mormon, as claimed by Joseph Smith, is a historical document relating to the history of early migrants to our hemisphere.

 

There were two men named Moroni in the BOM. The first was a Nephite General and man of God who lived and died about two hundreds years after the arrival to this continent from Jerusalem. Seven hundred years later, another great Nephite General named Mormon, named his Son Moroni after the great General from seven hundred years earlier. From the time of their first arrival, the Nephites kept records and passed them from generation to generation. Each keeper of the records added to them according to his experiences. The BOM is like a journal.

Yes, there are no validations. From Smiths first vision, to angels, the golden plates, the Lamanites and Nephites, their cities, and God...there is no evidence of any of it. Academically speaking, it is far easier to be a Jew than to be a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of latter Day Saints.

 

I have all the evidence and credibility I need.

 

Great. How much will you pay me for the bridge?

 

no, the Maya did not have a similar story.How do I know? As an archaeologist, I spent a lot of time with Mayan people. Btw, ancient Maya hieroglyphics can be…. Nobody special is mentioned coming from the east.Three of their ‘scriptures. Still exist saved from destruction fr by the Spanish who burned tens of thousands of Maya writings in the early 1500’s. Many of the Maya who generally follow the Catholic religion, still observe ancient Maya rituals and some beliefs, particularly a reverence and fear of the God Chaac.
G

 

You are right. I believe it was the Incas and Aztecs that had the similar story. As with much of ancient South American it is handed down tradition.

 

I already have the ultimate bridge.

 

Jesus may be a historical person but there is no proof that he was Jesus Christ. The ancient commentators mostly refer to his existence and claim that his followers said he was the Christ. They don't claim he was.

People will die for what they believe to be true, but no one will die for what they know to be a lie.

The problem with that is belief is not proof. Many people have died down the centuries for what they believed to be true at the time but, centuries later, proved untrue.

Thousands of Russians fought and died for freedom and - in brief - believing 'communism' would be their salvation. Looked what happened. Many Germans believed Hitler would be their salvation. Looked what happened.

Belief is not proof of anything.

To my mind Jesus is testified to in ancient history - but only the NT claims he was the Messiah.

If you are going to take the ancient writings refering to Jesus how about the Infancy Gospel of Thomas

Quote. The text describes the life of the child Jesus from the age of five to age twelve,[13] with fanciful, and sometimes malevolent, supernatural events. He is presented as a precocious child who starts his education early.[13] The stories cover how the young Incarnation of God matures and learns to use his powers for good and how those around him first respond in fear and later with admiration.[3] One of the episodes involves Jesus making clay birds, which he then proceeds to bring to life, an act also attributed to Jesus in Quran 5:110,[14] and in a medieval work known as Toledot Yeshu, although Jesus's age at the time of the event is not specified in either account. In another episode, a child disperses water that Jesus has collected. Jesus kills this first child, when at age one he curses a boy, which causes the child's body to wither into a corpse. Later, Jesus kills another child via curse when the child apparently accidentally bumps into Jesus, throws a stone at Jesus, or punches Jesus.

There are around 60+ books known to have been around in the early church years. Not all picturing Jesus in a good light. Many written claiming that Jesus told them things that he told no-one else. Only those giving Jesus lifestory in a good light were accepted. And they were adapted from OT teaching and misinterpreted scriptures.

The Jewish preacher taught and practised Judaism. The Gospel writers threw in their own ideas to make Jesus divine.

 

Not to butt in, but fwiw, Jesus as the savior is mentioned about 4000 times in The Book Of Mormon. The Book also contains testimonies that after his resurrection, he visited the inhabitants of this continent, taught his gospel, healed, called Apostles, and established his Church in person.

 

For what it's worth is absolutely zero. Until you can prove, or even just show a hint, that the BOM is true then what it has to say about Jesus is worthless.

 

The way to know whether or not something is from God is to ask God.

 

I did. God said the entire BOM and about 95% of the New Testament is all bull*****

 

That's a problem as there is no God except in people's minds.

 

For me, God began in my heart.

 

How did that come about. Did he speak to you. Or is that just your own conclusion.