Practical Firearms Discussion: The Rifle For Emergencies.

The only issues with the .45 Colt I have is that .45 Colt in its higher pressure loadings can damage firearms not designed for it; and some of the "+P" .45 Colt have bullet configurations that don't lend themselves to feeding in a lever action rifle either way. Of course, my favorite .45 Colt-chambered revolver is the S&W 25-5, and its cylinder isn't rated for heavy loads any more than the classic Colt SAA revolvers are. There are a couple of makers' leverguns set up to run .454 Casull, and they tend to run heavy .45 Colt effectively as well, however.

Another factor of the .45 Colt in a rifle, which was why you didn't see .45 Colt chambered rifles in the late 1800's was the old "balloon-head" .45 Colt brass had a very small, almost rudimentary rim which the rifle's extractor had difficulty maintaining contact with. New .45 Colt has a more substantial rim, so now they've been able to make reliable lever actions in the caliber.

All that said, the .44 Mag in all its configurations is more widely available than .45 Colt, which is often seen as more of a boutique cartridge these days than the .44 is.

 

I prefer the .45 because I am able to cast my own bullets, I cannot do that with the .44. I currently have 2 bulletmolds for the .45 Colt and can cast 10 bullets quickly. The tire weights for melting are easily available, I currently have 3 5 gallon buckets full of the weights, they make good bullets.

 

For a single caliber combo, the 44m is tough to beat.. maybe in 454 casull. I have both combos, and would be happy with either. Large frame ruger revolvers, and m92s.

But i see no need to limit to a single caliber. IMO, the 223 in a 30 mag auto is the best all around rifle.
1. Better distance accuracy than eithr 44m or 454.
2. Lighter bullets.. carry more in a defensive situation.
3. Lighter weapon.. mini-14 or ar are lighter than the big levers.
4. Reload lighter loads. Get 22lr noise in an ar.. won't cycle, but makes a quieter single shot.
5. Much better capacity. 30 vs 8 or 9.

I would prefer a 9mm sidearm, or maybe 45acp, and an AR. A short barrel, pistol grip shotgun completes the home defense armory.

 

My new favorite, is a pump up pcp air rifle.. 12 shot cylinder, 40 shots on a charge. A high pressure hand pump to put 2k-psi in it, and you have a pretty accurate, and easy small game rifle.

This is mine, out last shot show:

 

Why can’t you cast .44?

 

I have the Benjamin marauder in .25. Absolutely love it. I’ve killed ground squirrels past 100 yds.

 

There's an argument that makes sense. What caliber is the easiest to keep yourself in? In your case, .45. Having the ability to cast bullets and tailor the cartridges to the correct velocities for the application is a tremendous asset.

 

Lead is heavy haul. Many of the early Americans carried molds and a modest amount of shot (40-60 balls). The recycled lead from game. If you don’t have a mold, they aren’t that difficult to make along with a ladle, but there are many online sources as well for kits.

 

Well, respectfully, I see it a little differently. Don't get me wrong; I do like the 5.56 in a good carbine, but after evaluating it from the perspective of a single citizen alone, trying to, say, make it home after a disaster or a collapse of infrastructure and subsequent survival needs in the part of the country where I live, I realize it has some shortcomings when certain requirements are factored in.

A valid point, but again, this depends on where you live. A 5.56 carbine is good out to about 600 yards, while the lever gun is going to be limited to about 200. But, where I live it's a rural, mountainous area with relatively heavy forestation. Evaluating the area around my house, into town where I work, there are essentially no areas where I would need to take shots beyond 100-150 yards; thus negating the 5.56's precision at longer ranges.

In a survival situation, I'm definitely not looking to get into prolonged firefights. My priority is to avoid confrontation, and those lighter bullets won't help me one bit if I encounter a dangerous animal. Where I live, if I'm on foot trying to get home I face a real risk of encountering bears or cougars, and a 5.56 round suitable for defense against two-legged predators will do little more than enrage a good-sized bear. That said, if I was living in a heavily urbanized environment with a high population concentration, that would certainly change my priorities, and I would certainly make a different choice as to the optimum weapon. If my greatest threat is mobs and two-legged predators, the 5.56 Carbine makes a great deal more sense than a lever gun.

Maybe if we're talking a .45-70 lever gun; but not lighter than a compact, 16-inch barrel .44 Mag; either Marlin or Winchester. The lever gun is trimmer, lighter, and handier than an AR or a Mini-14.

An awkward single shot. I can run .44 Special out of a .44 Mag lever gun, and the powder has completely burned before the projectile clears the barrel. The report is much less intense than a magnum round, more a "thump" than a "bang", with much better terminal ballistics than a sub-sonic .22-caliber.

Well, even with my tactical carbines I don't load the mags to 30; only to 28. Much easier to tac-load the rifle with the bolt in battery, and the mag will lock in with less effort and with less likelihood of not seating correctly and falling out the first time the rifle is jarred by recoil or simple movement.

That said, again, I'm not looking for a sustained firefight. When moving through brush and forested mountain terrain, pursued by a numerically superior force, you want to only engage if pressed, then disengage to create distance. Single, precise shots fired at a group from unanticipated positions will force them to take cover while they try to figure out where the shot came from, and you use that opportunity to increase the distance between you and them and hopefully lose them in the brush. Easier to top the rifle off with single rounds while you're moving too.

My current EDC is a 9mm pistol, but I have a long love affair with the .45 as well. But, again, thinking in terms of my rural survival scenario the advantage of having to carry only one kind of ammo is a good one, and a .44 Mag revolver is a tremendous backwoods survival tool. No mags to lose either.

As for the shotgun, for a long time I didn't see much merit to a pistol grip shotgun. I'd rather have one with a shoulder stock; despite common misconceptions shotguns do have to be aimed, and it's much easier to aim with a proper cheek weld. With practice one can learn to run a pistol-grip shotgun using a rudimentary "body index" method to keep your shots in the right area, but most people don't want to put in the effort to master the recoil of a 12 gauge. Of course, the release of the new ATF classification of "firearm" instead of "shotgun" or "rifle" have created a market for super short, stockless shotguns that are very quick to maneuver even if they have limited capacity. Tactical innovators have even figured out ways to run these guns in a way that minimizes the disadvantage of running a weapon without a stock and makes them fairly effective PDW's, so we'll see what happens in the long run.

 

I've got lever guns in 357, 44m, 45c, 30-30, and 454 casull. I like 'em all, and won't give them up!

But the topic is 'Rifle for emergencies', ..it would perhaps depend on the specific emergency, but i would be hard pressed to leave the AR in the safe while using another rifle. A shotgun, maybe, under some circumstances, but unless i was targeting big game, and any problems with 2 legged varmints, would make the 223/5.56 my go to gun. Accuracy, capacity, effective ballistics, size and weight would tilt my decision scales to an AR or mini-14.

Hopefully, I'll never have to make such decisions, but familiarity with the tool, for the job at hand, and competence with it should make quick decisions easier.

 

Ruger-Gary Reeder Classic,44 magnum,Super Blackhawk,engraved,Stag grips

 

The M1A Scout Squad "weighs in at 8.8 pounds". Still, a bit heavy, and so is .308 ammo if you're carrying enough for that to be a consideration.

 

I mostly agree with An Taibhse. I keep a variety of guns for different purposes. They all have their strengths and weaknesses, and I prefer to be able to pick and choose the firearm that's best suited to the task at hand.

 

My big bore pistol used to be a ruger redhawk in 44m. But i made the leap to 454 casull, and now, if in bear country, or i feel like some punishing recoil, i take this:


..shoots 45colt, for lighter loads, and weighs about the same as the redhawk.. still heavy.

I've been working up some 45 super/460 Rowland loads, and built a conversion on a glock 21 platform that is pretty cool. 44m power in a 45acp cartridge. Longer barrel, muzzle brake, and stiffer springs gives you a 15+ shot auto magnum pistol.. the revolver is probably better for bears, but the glock platform is robust, and mine has been working well.. on the range..
Mine looks sorta like this.. my comp is a bit bigger, and i have the 2 tone nibo slide.

 

I have an early Redhawk, traded my Blackhawk and cash for it, with converted to a ported 3 1/2” barrel and .460 Ruger still in the AK I have carried when fishing. But, I have friends that started carrying Glock 10mm for that purpose and for hiking. Both now tell me they are doing the Rowland on G21’s with compensated barrels. I load .450 SMC’s in my HK45c with no mods. I have heard of successes with the 10mm in bear defense, but none yet with the Rowland. When up there earlier this year, I couldn’t convince myself the .450 was adequate and opted for the Ruger. The trend these days is to carry bear spray (more effective at turning a bear is the story) with gun backup. I have been up close to a hairy bus, close enough to result in a long term pucker, and if I have to use a pistol, I have visions of being bear scat. Prefer someone else do the field tests.

 

My SHTF weapon has already seen SHTF once before in its life, it uses 7.92M ammunition and if it ever has to be used again, either “World War Z” has happened or the Chinese finally got ballsy enough to invade.

 

this

 

Get what fits and is effective, I am partial to lever action and pump in any effective caliber, gauge or bore.

Great thread. My wife is on a lever action quest, she has adopted two of mine and just got a 22lr in lever action for her birthday.

 

I’m in agreement. Get a can of spray. Big revolvers would be fine against black bears, but if you find yourself between a big mama brown and her cubs.......

 

Yep, permanent pucker or bear scat.

 

I do like Gary Reeder's work in terms of action tuning and modifications. His engraving leaves something to be desired though.

A former instructor of mine just had this one built by Tyler Gun Works.

 

Sure, in a perfect world we should be able to own whatever tools we need for any given job. I certainly have a broad spectrum of options in my personal battery, and if I were home when embroiled in TEOTWAWKI I'd be in fine fettle. All the food, water, and weapons I could possibly need right at my fingertips.

That said, if I was away from home (as I tend to be a great deal of the time) and a catastrophic event were to occur, I find myself wondering what would be the single best all-around tool for the express purpose of enabling me to get home through the environment that is the reality of where I live. I certainly wouldn't have access to everything, but only the single long gun and handgun that is part of my emergency kit in my vehicle at a given moment. In such a situation, which platform is best overall? That's what got me thinking about the question that motivated me starting this discussion.

 

Well I would say your choices are sound choices because you know what you need and you've given it a lot of thought. I've never given much thought to routinely carrying a long gun around with me secured in my trunk for just in case the SHTF suddenly. I have a friend who does, however. I carry a pistol with an extra loaded magazine with me everywhere (a Glock 26). I like your scout rifle choice, but I also like the idea of an AR or a 12 guage. So many choices ....

 

Yeah, agree. I found that and for a second I thought it was still for sale and my heart skipped a beat. I like the grips, and it's just a good looking working gun with a Reeder action job. Then I saw SOLD.

 

while a SIG MCX or a HM defense mono bloc AR are my first choices, I have a rather esoteric other choice that is more PC-the Israeli made Timberwolf. a TD pump gun in 38 or 357. While its tube fed, it holds lots of rounds and being a pump gun with no detachable magazine to cause garment soiling among many gun banners, its fast to shoot with its short stroke action and loaded with the hot 125 frontier JHP its potent with no recoil. since I am a veteran of three gun competitions, I can load it rather quickly.

https://www.remtek.com/arms/imi/timber/index.htm