Pro-Palestinian crowds try to storm air base housing U.S. troops in Turkey

Non sequitur. I guess you are just incapable of understanding.

 

Oh, I absolutely understand your support for Hamas...lol

I TOTALLY get it.

 

And thus, you prove your incapacity to understand. I do not support Hamas. In fact, that was not even the subject of our conversation (or this thread). So you are deeply lost, and don't even realize it (which is as hopelessly lost, as one can be).

Most Palestinians are not Hamas. 30 to 40 thousand Hamas, versus 2.3 million Palestinians. Israel must be selective, in their bombing. This is the official American position, of Secretary of State Blinken, President Biden, even of Senator Bernie Sanders (who is Jewish).

 

The Allies, over the course of the war, killed many times over the civilians that the Japanese killed at Pearl Harbor. But the Axis powers deserved it because they started the war. In this case, the October 7th attack was ONLY about inflicting civilian casualties. They didn't even have a military objective like the Japanese did.

So I find this whining over civilian deaths from the attacking nation somewhat phony. They started it, the roster of dead civilians in Gaza are not the objective, they are a by product of where a terrorist group decided to locate. If after 9/11 we had found that Bin Ladin was hiding in an orphanage, I would have attacked that orphanage and burnt it to a crisp to make sure we got Bin Ladin.

So I'm not judging the response of another nation that was attacked in a pretty vicious terrorist attack. Particularly when it's done by people who've lead pretty comfortable lives because of the actions and decisions of your (and my) forefathers (and betters) who bombed German cities, firebombed Tokyo, and nuked two Japanese cities.

I'm glad they did it.

 

Anyone who is calling Israel war criminals and calls for a ceasefire is supporting Hamas.

 

I never said there is nothing they can do. I said they’re trying their best. They have dropped leaflets and gave plenty of warnings to get away from targeted zones.

 

No, we enforce a peaceful resolution, protecting innocent civilian life over all other considerations.

 

I'm sure you are enjoying the slaughter.

 

No, they gave no warning to the people in the Jabalia Refugee camp, before destroying 20 buildings of residential housing. In many other cases, this is true, as well, including in the supposed safe zone, in the south. If Israel was really doing, what you claim they're doing, I would have no criticism of them; and you would have no need to claim that this many deaths is unavoidable, but that all blame for them, falls upon Hamas (because then, unlike now, that would be obvious).

Joe knows said: ↑
but the way these heathens cover their targets with civilians gives little room for prevention.

Joe knows said: ↑
That’s on them, not Israel.

They have to get ugly for those who are fighting ugly.
<End Quote>

 

If this is true (I have not researched this particular claim) then they should be held liable for actions such as this with a bare minimum of monetary funds to surviving family members. However, like I said I have not research this particular attack so I won’t argue things I am not aware of.

 

Absolutely not. I wish Hamas had been destroyed decades ago. Don't you?

 

I wish Israel had dealt fairly with the Palestinians in the past so that Hamas would have never gained the power it has.

 

EDITED post:

What is your point? Did I, or anyone, ever claim that any part of Gaza was "IMMUNE from military operations?" Don't be so : none of these protocols you list, gives an army the green light to wantonly kill civilians. None of your citations override the Principle of Proportionality, which applies to those military operations. That is all that anyone is arguing: that Israel need use more discrimination, in those operations. See my immediately preceding post, #90.

 

There was a HVT hiding in jabalia. They weren't required to give advanced warning.

 

If the Pals would accept Israel's right to exist and stop murdering israelis, this wouldn't be happening.

 

Several posters have claimed that ANY civilian casualties are a war crime, actually.

 

Your analogy is not apt, for a number of reasons. For one, the Rules of war have changed since that time. Dropping nuclear bombs on cities, today, would definitely be considered a war crime.

Another difference, is that one could have much more easily made the case, for the nukes, that the military benefit had been proportional to the amount of civilian collateral damage, because without these bombs it was predicted that an invasion of the Japanese mainland would be required to bring a Japanese surrender, with an expectation of 50,000 American dead, and many more, on the Japanese side. So, terrible as they were, there is a case to be made that, in the end, these bombs saved lives.

Perhaps you are the type to torch an orphanage, but the U.S. would not. We would assault the orphanage, minimizing as best we could, non combatant casualties.

The excuse "they started it," doesn't generally work, for adults. Just because the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor (and I don't even know if there was civilian collateral damage, in this strike at an obviously military target), would not count towards a free attack on civilians, for our military.

Again:
1) the rules have changed-- specifically because of the atrocities of that war.
2) The circumstances are different. There is no credible case, that Hamas is about to develop a weapon which would bring them victory, and mean Israel's doom (as had the Nazis been developing the atomic bomb). There is no risk of Hamas beating the IDF. Hence, there is no such urgency for Israel's total victory, that it cannot work towards getting citizens out of harm's way, first.

We & our allies faced a very similar situation ourselves, recently, when we assaulted the city of Mosul, Iraq, in our fight against ISIS. There, the people were very certainly being held against their will. Nevertheless, the nine month battle, which reduced the city to ruins, produced around 10 thousand deaths, give or take a thousand. So, about a thousand a month. Israel's offensive has already equaled or exceeded that, in less than one month (had averaged 3,000 dead civilians a week, in its first three weeks, before the ground war has even begun). So there is precedent, & Israel is not measuring up to it, very well.

 

Like who? Not me. Can you produce any quotes? If so, those people would not know what they're talking about. There clearly will be civilian casualties. The argument from all diplomatic sources, including our own government, is about the degree of this "collateral damage."

 

They know whom they are. Let's see if they can step up.

 

Glad to hear that you are not deaf to any & all criticisms of Israel, as are some. But nor are you as well informed, as you act, if you hadn't heard about Jabalia. Israel struck it twice, on consecutive days. Check out the crater left, about 50 feet deep, by the bunker buster bomb, used by Israel.




https://www.politico.com/news/2023/...planation-of-some-airstrikes-in-gaza-00125294

 

Palestinians wouldn't be so angry at Israelis if the Israelis didn't exploit and oppress them for decades.

 

All the Pals have to do is recognize Israel's right to exist. It's literally that simple.

 

Nope.

 

Lol, complete BS. It is nowhere near that simple.

the UN is describing Gaza as “a graveyard for children. There is now over 10,000 dead civilians, over 4,000 children. Israel is screwing themselves. They are creating massive numbers of radicals and terrorists through their slaughter of innocents.

 

It's absolutely that simple. Every round of peace talks collapsed because of that one point.