Pro-Palestinian crowds try to storm air base housing U.S. troops in Turkey

Because genius, we were creating MORE terrorists and insurgents, not less. I know, I was there. The majority of the people I killed would never have even picked up a rifle if we had not invaded their homeland. 20 ****ing years in Afghanistan, ending in a humiliating withdrawal, and over a decade in Iraq in a war based on false intelligence. It was all BS, conflicts dragged out as long as possible to maximize profits for the arms industry.

 

I'm sorry for your losses and your personal experience, but you are not unique, not in this world and not in this forum.
I disagree with you, with all the things you know there are mountains you don't know about, and I still believe its impossible to evaluate what never happened.

 

That doesn't mean we should not evaluate what DID happen and find things we can do better, and apply those lessons to do better the next time around. What is happening now is just doing the same thing over and over again, expecting somehow different results. The definition of insanity.

We somehow expect that dropping bombs on a population of civilians is going to somehow convince them not to support the entity that is opposing the entity dropping bombs on them. In what sane universe does that make sense?? As you kill more civilians you increase support for Hamas, and at the same time radicalize more people. We should understand that from both Israel's history with the Palestinians, as well as our experiences in Vietnam, Iraq, and Afghanistan.

 

ISIS, what did the world pay them off with ? what gentle words of wisdom did Russia use there ?

 

There was not the extreme slaughter of civilians in fighting ISIS as there is in Israel.
You seem to think I am saying not to fight Hamas. I am not. I am saying not to slaughter civilians on the level that we are seeing in Gaza. It is WAY beyond what is reasonable. It is being done in a way that is strengthening Hamas and other extremist groups, as well as uniting the world against Israel.

since 2014, 1114 civilians were killed by coalition forces while fighting ISIS. In Israel it has been 10,000 in a single month. WTF.

in Ukraine, Russia killed 1,000 civilians in the first 6 months of the invasion. Israel is making Russians look like cuddly teddy bears.

 

Now you just made a sharp turn terror way so we'll finish here, saying Gaza had more civilian casualties than Syria and Iraq had while coalition and Russia fought ISIS is - insane.
BTW, of those 10,000 that Hamas reported and only Hamas reports numbers from Gaza - how many were combatants ? 1? 10? you got anything on that ? sits well with you oh honest wise one ?
There should be at least 50,000 Hamas and Jihad combatants, 3,000 of them according to Hamas participated in Oct 7th.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...gures-from-the-hamas-run-gaza-health-ministry

Others say the ministry has a track record of reliable casualty figures and that it has fallen victim to the propaganda war as Israel seeks to minimise the consequences of its hundreds of bombing raids on Gaza.

In the past, the US state department’s annual human rights report indirectly relied on the same ministry’s casualty figures in quoting UN statistics drawn from Palestinian data.

Omar Shakir, the Israel and Palestine director at Human Rights Watch, said he saw no evidence that the numbers were being manipulated.

“We have been monitoring human rights abuses in the Gaza Strip for three decades, including several rounds of hostilities. We’ve generally found the data that comes out of the ministry of health to be reliable,” he said.

“When we have done our own independent investigations around particular strikes, and we’ve compared those figures against those from the health ministry, there haven’t been major deviations.

“Their numbers generally are consistent with what we’re seeing on the ground in recent days. There have been hundreds of airstrikes per day in one of the most densely populated areas of the world.


And so it stands that the numbers given how much the Jewish state is slaughtering is to be considered totally reliable. Very very strange that you're not aware of what your own country is doing. But I guess it serves your agenda.

 

Really....a Palestinian said he sees no reason the Palestinians would lie....maybe pass it to a third Palestinian

 

So you don't trust a person based on his ethnicity, working at HRW.
Nobody is surprised that people like you are defending the Jewish homeland like that.
And what a nasty racist argument that is....

 

The people on this forum who have been posting about "genocide."

 

It's a good thing we didn't apply that logic during WW2.

 

Your pretext for excusing the reckless endangerment and callous killing of civilians shows, if not utter disingenuousness, then a credulous acceptance of the ridiculous, out of utter ignorance. There was not adequate warning to civilians, nor adequate allowances to make the option of so many relocated in such a short time, feasible or realistic. Hamas's attack was on a Friday, and nonstop Israeli bombing raids began on Monday. There was a 24 hour warning given. And no assurances of the safety of those evacuating, once the bombing had begun. Also, most Gazans are dirt poor, and would need evacuate on foot. So, depriving them of water (not to mention food, and medicine) only makes it more difficult for them to leave. Also, you can't expect people to leave, without giving them a place to go, which Israel has still not done. They have bombed even Palestinians in camps after they had moved to these, in the south. There is no safe place, anywhere in Gaza, for civilians. And the camps that exist, are not equipped to deal with all the people. Obviously Israel could not have set up places to sustain 2 million people, so quickly-- while refusing the assistance of aid organizations.

It would be a waste of time, I see, to go on pointing out to you that also there are elderly and disabled, for whom suggesting such a trek, is only a cruel joke. Not to mention many small children, which I guess parents are supposed to be able to carry, along with what will be the families' only remaining possessions, while dodging Israeli missiles, on their way a place that doesn't even exist (to house them & provide for their basic needs), where they still would not be safe, and all while dehydrated, for lack of water.

Your fantastic reply leads me to believe I had also been correct about your not bothering to watch the 2 minute, "Whispered In Gaza" videos, with which I'd earlier supplied you (?).

 

Because the conflict in Israel is even remotely comparable to WW2...uh huh.

But, if we continue on the path we are going, we may find ourselves stumbling into WW3.

 

Destroying Hamas is just as important as destroying the Nazis. Wouldn't you agree?

 

Look at you-- pretending you have any idea about what's written in any international conventions on human rights, or about the rules of war: the Laws Of Armed Conflict. Also, comically, you totally miss the point: it is not about giving Hamas immunity, but about not giving Israel immunity to discard the principle of PROPORTIONALITY-- I'm sure you're familiar with it, right?-- in its fight against Hamas.

 

Quote the international law that requires a military to completely avoid civilian casualties.

 

WTF are you talking about? As a matter of fact, people have expressed concern over Israeli civilian strikes in the past. But I know that you were referring to the Israeli civilians, killed on October 7th, and you ludicrously imply that we who now object to excessive Palestinian civilians deaths, were fine with those. What a joke. I condemned Hamas for these, and continue to do so, as do most people.

The implication of your comment, though, is that this act by Hamas, justifies Israel, in killing many times more civilians, in Gaza. So the hypocrisy would be yours, not ours. Do you condemn the Hamas attack, as inhumane, monstrous, and unacceptable? If so, why would that not be equally true, when the shoe is on the other foot? Are there acceptable excuses, in your book, for disregarding the human rights of civilians?

To save a step, in what will predictably be your bogus argument: because some civilians are killed in wartime, is not the same as declaring open season on civilians. These collateral losses are supposed to be assessed, so that they are only permitted in a degree equal to the military benefit gained, while incurring them. That has not happened.

 

Yes, but only if we do not become just as bad or worse than them in the process, and only if civilians are not dying at such a ridiculous rate, or else, there is no point. Keeping civilians alive is more important than killing Hamas.

 

Except that Hamas kills civilians. You can see the problem with leaving them alone.

 

Then, this is just like WW2.

 

The IDF kills far more civilians, so, no, not so much.

 

How so?

 

Because destroying Hamas is just as important as destroying the Nazis.

 

The age old objective of war...

"Do more damage, in less time, than the enemy".

 

Both of those are far less important than keeping civilians alive, or else the Israelis become what they are trying to destroy, as they are now.