Questions for Biden supporters

And there will be a significant neo-Trump movement for a long time. But just like calling somebody a Nazi is seen as an insult today, and not acceptable, for example, on this forum; a time will come when calling somebody a "Trumpist" will become an insult and will get your post deleted. I can hardly wait.

 

Yes he did, just a different way!

He snatched the illegal parents up and left the children for American taxpayers to deal with.. Trump 500 were caught crossing the border, the adults were deported or released and those children were and still haven't been claimed..

Again, where are these wonderful parents all the left want to return these children to

But as usual it's all just a giant load of BULLSHIT each side uses to pull at the heartstrings of the Agenda driven and the ignorance of the ongoing southern border issue..


Who’s Responsible for Separating Alien Kids From Their Parents? Many People, but Not Trump
Jun 22nd, 2018

Continued Read entire article

But hardly anyone want to be honest about Mexico, the criminals and the border problem..

 

Yes I know the story. separate children from adults from whom it wasn't proven that they were their parents or something like that.

My reading of Trump was separate the kids from adults for their own good...

 

That is absolute nonsense! Obama had no policy whatsoever to separate children from their parents. Much less to torture children by separating them from their parents. Trump did... It was deliberately designed to make children suffer in order to dissuade their parents to not apply for asylum.

I'm not talking about an event that resulted, by chance or circumstances, for children to be separated. As would be to send somebody's parent to a war, for example. I'm talking about clear intentional torture.

This is the definition of torture in our laws.

18 U.S. Code § 2340
(1)
“torture” means an act committed by a person acting under the color of law specifically intended to inflict severe physical or mental pain or suffering (other than pain or suffering incidental to lawful sanctions) upon another person within his custody or physical control;
severe mental pain or suffering” means the prolonged mental harm caused by or resulting from—
(A)
the intentional infliction or threatened infliction of severe physical pain or suffering;
...
[or]
...
(D)
the threat that another person will imminently be subjected to death, severe physical pain or suffering...

​

Stop trying to fool yourself to try to deny reality. Just accept the fact that you are supporting an immoral human being and promoting him to the Presidency. I'm an atheist, so I don't believe you will pay for it in another life. But I know most will one day wake up from their "stupor" and realize what this guy has done. Many of those children, however, most assuredly the 500+ that even today have not been reunited with their parents... after two years of being separated... those will suffer the mental scaring forever. And those who don't wake up today to vote the creep out, will have woken up far too late.

 

Herd immunity unfortunately comes with a price but that is how human biology and natural selection works. The longer we try to avoid the virus the weaker our collective immunity becomes. As unpredictable Covid 19 is so is the effectiveness of a vaccine that will also have unpredictable results and actually make things worse for some groups. Waiting for a miracle cure is like changing seats on the Titanic.

 

I'll read this properly tomorrow

 

Yeah, and if you like your doctor you can keep your doctor, your check's in the mail, it's only a cold sore and I'm from the government and I'm here to help.

 

Obviously if we are changing up our system a bit not everyone will have the same doctor they did before.

 

Obamacare shifted healthcare costs from the sick onto the healthy and helped out poor people. So the premium increase was for good reason. Biden wants to help fix that problem by adding a public option and beef up subsidies. Its literally the solution to the problem you are complaining about.

 

Biden was there when the cost of others insurance was shifted on to you in the first place. Why would he be able to fix it? Under the Harris health plan, all that cost will be shifted to your federal income tax.

 

The whole point of health insurance is to shift the cost from sick people to the general population. Obamacare did a good thing by moving healthcare costs into premiums. That is how healthcare is supposed to work. But we need better subsidies so people can handle those premiums. That is literally Biden's whole point and I agree. As for the Harris plan, she isn't the one who is president here. And even if she is, she doesn't have the votes to pass her plan. Its irrelevant.

 

Before Obamacare the US enjoyed the best healthcare in the world. We had the finest hospitals in the world. Private healthcare was affordable with low premiums, co-pays, and very few deductibles. Seniors and the disabled were covered by Medicare and Medicaid. Welfare recipients had wall to wall coverage completely paid by the taxpayer. Anyone else would qualify for programs offered by the individual states. The twenty million uninsured Americans number is a phantom, something the Democrats made up in order to cover for the $18.5 billion a year we pay for illegal's healthcare. Obamacare's mandate put a gun to the head of the American taxpayer to force us to pony up for this scam. The net result was, working Americans took a huge screwing, our healthcare premiums and deductibles exploded and the quality of healthcare plummeted. All of this was to swell the numbers of potential Democrat voters (illegals) in a move to create a super majority and destroy the Republican party. And the liberals call the Republicans dictators.

 

What have you been smoking?

When I started working full time in the 80s, my cost from my employer was $10/check, and I had very low deductibles and costs weren't off the charts crazy.

By the time we were in the 2000's, my cost per check was close to $300, with much higher deductibles and co pays through the roof.

There has never been a single year where costs haven't risen dramatically.

 

Why, increased subsidies is just shifting the cost back on to the taxpayers (you). Example: Does it really matter if there are 3 easy payments of $50, the cost is still $150. One only needs to look to Canada for the answer.

The cost for 2 adults without children is $11,381, that's $5690.50 per adult or $474.20 per adult per month in higher taxes to pay for Government "free" universal health care.

 

The hospitals are still there you know.

Obamacare shifted healthcare costs from the sick to the general population. That is why premiums went up. The overall cost of healthcare remained the same. Biden want to help the general population by giving them a public option and helping them pay for healthcare. Sounds good to me.

That stuff is still there. Biden wants to improve healthcare coverage with subsidies.

Its not a myth. Republicans would roll back the Medicaid expansion which makes up most of those people.

The mandate wasn't a real mandate and was really a tax for not having healthcare. If you want to shift the healthcare costs from the sick to the general population, you need to make sure we have a lot of healthy people in the insurance pool. That is why we needed a tax. What we should have done was given people really good subsidies to make it really easy to have healthcare and avoid the tax. That is what Biden will do.

 

The subsidies Biden is proposing will be mostly paid for by the rich and mostly help working class people. I believe that healthcare costs should be as a percentage of income not a flat fee. Biden's plan is moving in the right direction, even though the working class will still pay a much higher percent of their income in healthcare than the rich.

 

Like Warren Buffett paying less in taxes than secretary? There's nothing but millionaires in Congress do you really think they'll raise their own taxes? It didn't happen during Biden's VP tenure in the Obama administration, why would it happen now? It didn't happen during Biden's 40+ years in congress.

Sound familiar?

 

Democrats have a really solid record of raising taxes on rich people. I wouldn't worry about it if I were you. I'd personally pay for the premium cut with a flat rate income tax increase so everybody contributes.

 

Yes, even if you're "seeking asylum". There's a proper way to do that, and trying to sneak across the border in the dead of night, and they crying "asylum" when you get caught (breaking the law!) ain't it. And something like 95%+ of those who seek asylum are denied because they don't qualify under US and International Law. It's not a "get out of jail free" card, to be played only if/when you get caught.

Look, let's get something straight here. NOBODY is being tortured. When an adult gets caught attempting to violate our borders, they go to jail. If they have a child with them, something has to be done with that child, unless you think sending them to jail with their purported "parent" is a good idea.

Something like 90% of those kids end up with an actual parent living in the US, and are released to their custody. Unfortunately, this is done without regard to the immigration status of that parent. If it turns out they're illegals themselves, they, too, should be arrested and if found guilty, do their time and be deported. But at least for now, that's not what's happening.

Another 5-6% end up going to some other relative living in the US, again without regard to that relative's immigration status.

The remaining ~4% are housed at least temporarily in the facilities you refer to as "torture", that were built in the pre-Trump era. Ultimately, if no parent or other relative is found, they end up in the care of some State's DCFS. One thing I'm not clear on is how it is decided which State will take custody of them, but that's not all that important to this discussion. They end up "in the system", and ultimately are sent to foster care and/or adopted by someone within the US. I suppose some of them go home, either by choice, or at the behest of their actual parents, wherever it is they're from.

Far too frequently, it turns out that the alleged children are in fact, NOT the children of the arrestee who claimed to be their parent, rather that person was either transporting them as a mule, or for child prostitution or other heinous purposes. The whole child sex trafficking thing is very real, sadly much, much more common than most of us think, and goes way beyond Jeffrey whatshisname paying 16 and 17 year olds for sex- we're talking REAL children. Being rented out for sexual purposes by some really BAD people. (Oh, and as a semi-related sidenote, 16 is the legal age of consent in 30 out of the 50 States, at least last time I checked, which was probably about a year or so ago.)

And I'm not talking about wild conspiracy theories here, I'm talking about real children, with real arrested pimps, real charges, real DAs, and very real jail time. And I think we're only scratching the surface. But I digress.

Back to the topic, we used to give violators a ticket, and release them into the US with instructions to return for their hearing. But I guess there was a language barrier or something, as something like 97% of those so ticketed never showed. Maybe they thought those tickets were "Welcome to the USA" gifts of free toilet paper. We called this "Catch and Release". We stopped doing that, and started to put the adults in jail until their hearings, and the children in some kind of foster care, which you're now referring to as "torture". This all happened, just so ya know, before Trump was even elected.

So, now that you know the facts, what specifically do you suggest that we do?

 

Protecting our borders and actually enforcing our immigration laws does not even remotely rise to the level of an "atrocity". It is our right as a society to set standards, and the government's SWORN DUTY to enforce them. Which is still not getting done sufficiently.

 

Biden will begin the steps to stop the Virus

 

I think it's more of a selective reasoning thing with most partisan players

 

And yet he did just like Clinton, Bush and Trump.. I know, hero's and truths are very hard to take with the truly indoctrinated..

 

Good man, open minded! I bow to your strength and willingness to probe other facts.....

 

Moochers gonna mooch. Stop expecting a total stranger to pay for your healthcare costs or insurance. Be responsible for yourself.