Really, What's the Differnce Between Taxes and Theft?

The 10th covers that...

 

Comparing paying taxes to supporting Nazis and killing Jews? That's just disgusting.

 

I stand by it. Even the petty tyrant in your HOA who makes your life miserable by reporting every property violation to the HOA enforcers.. is capable of killing Jews if given the opportunity. Think of how Nazis became capable of such atrocity to begin with starting as average, law abiding citizens. Because evil was harbored in their hearts, it came to full fruition once the restraints of civil society were removed.

My logic on this is impeccable.

 

Actually, the Constitution specifically states that any power that is not delegated by the Constitution to the federal government is reserved to the states in the 10th amendment.

So if I build in institution in which people can vote, I have the right to arrest people who don't fund my organization?

Note: I never said taxation was theft myself. I'm simply asking questions.

 

Lol, you mean the institution called the United States of America?

Ummmm... yes, if you built a country, you have the right to arrest those people who take but do not contribute.

You know you can go live in the woods with your militia buddies and not use USD at all. You guys can whittle knives and arrows and trade them with the local Amish people!

 

So 47% of tax filers should be placed under arrest?

 

The proper purpose of a DEMOCRATIC government is to perform the will of the people, which is and always has been adaptable throughout history. The will of the people has ALWAYS won out in our society, and that will has been responsible for the goods AND the bads in this society. From slavery (voted on and supported by a majority until it wasn't) to Social Security to prohibition to universal suffrage, the will of the people has ALWAYS been the driving force in government policy and government purpose.

If the overwhelming majority of our nation decided tomorrow to pass a law making all dogs sacred, requiring strict adherence to their treatment and worship in public, then no matter the original Constitution stated, the elected political leaders would be obligated to enact laws (constitutional or otherwise) to adhere to that standard, and the minority would have the choice to agree, change the power structure in Washington, or move out. If a new election cycle brought a different majority, then it could change again.

Too many absolutists and Fundamentalists have this delusion that our "democracy" was some final, established piece of paper that can never be altered and can only function in its original form (ignoring the very basic ideas that our society might have changed just a wee bit in the last 250 years). The fact is, the founding fathers simply new that the govenrment they didn't want was anything related to the monarchy they were trying to revolt against. Beyond that, there were way too many ideas and directions our society could have gone in based on the ideas and plans of the founding fathers. FOR THAT REASON, they created a government that SHOULD adapt and changed as long as that change was dictated by the large majority of its citizens.

The people can and should decide at any time that they can change directions Constitutionally and elect leaders to do exactly that. one side traditionally has worked out and progressed to improve our nation, and the other side has done very little other than to be obstructionist babies that seek power only to destroy our government from within while benefit corporatism and elitist monopolies. Take a guess at which side that's been for the last 60 years or so.

 

Are they not paying what the law says they have to pay? If so then yes, they should go to jail.

 

Then I can breath a sigh of relief. I'm freeloading, but I'm doing it legally.

 

We want a certain standard of living here in this country. There is no reason to tax people who have kids and can actually use the money. That demand is much better served through them buying stuff than them being taxed.

Taxation is much more of a demand control/inflation control than anything else.

Since we are a fiat economy, taxes really do not serve the purpose they used to serve.

 

You are very correct,

Especially when you ask," What really is the distinction between a tax and outright theft?"

Well, it seems we are we are well on our way to drive the government's deficit to a record $1.5 trillion this year! "The eye-popping numbers mean the government will continue to borrow 40 cents for every dollar it spends."

"To put everything in perspective, think about what would need to be done to erase the federal deficit this year: After everyone making more than $200,000/year has paid taxes, the IRS would need to take every single penny of disposable income they have left. Such an act would raise approximately $1.53 trillion"



Mr. Obama, I know you are on your fourth vacation, but please tell us, when will the madness end? What will you do to get our economy moving again?

 

So how is a voluntary act of having children, which we chose to do, place a burden of responsibility on you, the guy that doesn't have kids? Since when are taxes only paid by childless men and women? Or when, pray tell, did the notion surface that parents owe less of a responsibility to do their fair share than anyone else?

 

Children are humans who can not possibly make their own money. I have no qualms with tax credits to people who have children. What I hate is people who have children that are degenerates and create degenerate children. There is absolutely nothing you can do about that, but at least allow children to eat.

I don't play this whole "fairness" game. I relate things to reality. Reality is, at my income, and the fact I don't have any children, and the fact I'm not disabled or an old ass man... I can afford to pay higher taxes than others. I really don't get caught up in this taxation crap. If you want to live in a civilized society, pay your taxes. If you want freedom to do whatever it is YOU want to do, then go move to some less civilized country.

 

Can we meet halfway? Can we agree that the tax burden should be less on parents without eliminating it altogether?

Or we can reform the tax system in this country to make it more fair for everyone.

 

This is an excellent response, saintmichaeldefendthem.

Your remarks are very sincere, directly to the point and well crafted!



With his incorrect and misleading comments, "akphidelt" drops another one!"

 

The tax burden be set above the minimum standard of required living for a family. There is no reason to tax someone making $40k who needs every dollar he gets to reach the standard of living. Compared to those making $100's of thousands of dollars who have more than enough to reach that standard and more than enough to save.

Taxation is an inflation/demand control.

Fiscal policy should be set to balance demand. Rich people pay so much taxes because they make so much money. I love how people brag about 47% of the country not paying taxes. That is embarrassing for this country to have over half the country not even making the basic level of standard of living. It is sickening that people want the poorest people to pay more. What the heck is that going to accomplish?

 

Your moral postulations don't answer my question. How does my decision to have children put you into my debt? What is the origin of debt?

If we had a flat tax, the rich would still be paying more in taxes.

It's nothing to brag about that we have 47% of people that have been taught that they have a moral right to a free ride.

basic standard of living by whose standards? What state are you referring to? The standard of living for Americans is the same as it always has been, most of us making do with what we have.

No, we want the poorest people to pay something as poor people have always done throughout our grand history.

 

You're not freeloading, I don't know what state you live in, but I assume you pay some type of sales tax or state income tax. Possibly both. You pay payroll taxes for social security and medicare. Just because you aren't paying a federal income tax that doesnt' mean you aren't contributing. That's the problem with the the meme that 47% dont' pay taxes. They are paying taxes, they are just not paying federal income taxes. They aren't paying federal income taxes because they allready make so little. Do you want to start paying more in taxes. That's what the republicans want. A man with 2 children making $40,000/year is voting against their intrest when they vote with republicans. You may not agree with the social issues of Democrats, but on economic issues, the Republicans are against you.

Oh yeah, just so you know, you are in the top 50% of income earners in the US. So those people in the bottom 50% make substantially less than you do.

 

Because for some reason people care about children regardless of their degenerate parents choices.

How can someone making $10,000 pay the same amount of taxes as someone who makes a $1,000,000? Wow, you are on to something!!

They don't have a free ride, they still pay SS taxes, sales taxes, etc. The only thing they get exempt from is federal income taxes because we deem them too poor to warrant payment. Not really a "free ride" if you ask me. I've been given a free ride much more than someone making $40k who gets to skip out of income taxes.

There's a whole world of children and old people who need help. Like I said, you can blame the parents, which I do... but that does not negate the fact that we should still support children who have horrible parents. Children shouldn't suffer in America because their degenerate parents.

Lol, the funny thing is, the only reason why we keep raising the standard of living on the poor by giving tax credits is because their wages aren't keeping up with the rich. The rich are putting this country in a difficult position. They no longer need the poor, so we have to supplement the poor through Government. There is nothing worse for a country than a small group of rich people and an entire nation of peasants.

 

This pays for my state, and I pay sales tax too, but it doesn't support my country.

My federal government keeps me safe from invasion, ensures certain standards for my water, food, and medicine, helps pay for my roads and schools, ensures a uniform currency, protects my constitutional rights from state usurpation, and gives me a national identity. And I don't pay a dime for it. Ditto that for millions of fellow Americans.

Yes. That's the problem.

And yet generations past, who have been even poorer than I, managed to pay federal taxes.

I don't think people in my economic status should be paying alot, but we should be paying something.

Those figures are skewed. $40k means I barely get by in Idaho. It would be very subpar in California, and even more so in New York. When I have to choose between new shoes for my 8 year old (and he outgrows them every 6 months!) or putting that money toward his college fund....let's just say I'm like a lot of other people that could use a break, but manage without one. I'm not going to offer the IRS any more than they're asking, but if some of us were asked to pay a minimum of say $200, I would grin and bear it.

 

How can you say all this knowing that when the tax rate was 91% at the height of the "Progressive Era" that bottom tax rate was 22%.

Are the poor today somehow worse off than their grandparents in 1930's-40's? I don't think so!

 

Fixed it for you.

Try "elections."

 

Are the rich today somehow worse off than their grandparents in 1930's-40's? I don't this so!