Republican AND Christian...? How?

No, actually, that's not intrinsic to conservative/Republican beliefs. A full third support gay marriage - or what religious beliefs were you talking about?

^_- really? First, you're citing the Old Testament, second you're citing the parts that are historical records. These aren't commandments, these are records of instructions given to the Hebrews. When they were with Moses.

I'll note that crop rotation methods were never intrinsic parts of Christian theology.

I'll also note, again, that the OT-notintegraltoChristianity-part you cited included tithes. By your own rationale, a true Christian should support the government extracting Church tithes and stoning gays.

Which is entirely moot. Why does giving to religious organizations like Worldvision, who funnels 85% of donations into direct anti-poverty programs, not count? You mean charity doesn't count if the organization gives food to the needy and also says, "Jesus loves you"?

I can't help but appreciate the humor in a thread where one guy says Republican ideology and Christianity are at odds, and in understanding Christian charity tries to suggest that giving to religious organizations doesn't count. We are talking about Christianity and Republican ideology, right?

No, conservative policies don't boil down to "screw you, I got mine." If you think greed is incompatible with the teachings of Jesus, I turn you again to the significantly higher charitable giving of conservatives. So who exactly is greedy?

 

Did you really just supply a link illustrating that conservatives/Republicans are half as likely to support gay marriage as liberals/Democrats, then attempt to use this information to illustrate how accepting Republicans are of same-sex marriage?!
Which party has politicians threatening to quit the party if gay marriage is not fought against? Which party has pushed for sodomy laws (while hypocritically praising "small government")?

And? Is the Old Testament not a significant part of Christian belief? Sorry, I didn't realize... I guess that means we can all stop trying to introduce creationism into science classrooms now, right?

Which makes it different from the rest of the Bible how?

A) Please define what you believe to be the difference between a commandment and an instruction.
B) Please explain why nothing that happened in the time of Moses is relevant to Christianity any more.

False equivalency much? I never claimed the Bible makes a whole lot of sense, I'm simply trying to determine how it is possible to reconcile the generosity and love Christ spoke of with the "F**K YOU" ideology of the Republican party.

Oh goodie, you're able to name a religious organization that only keeps 15% of the money donated for the purposes of anti-poverty...

Let's be honest, shall we?
- The number of Megachurches doubles every 10 years.
- These Megachurches operate as for-profit businesses that relate more to "Republican Jesus" than the philosophies of Jesus Christ. http://www.alternet.org/story/72539..._money_hypocrisy_sparks_church-state_showdown

And, once again, I would suggest that those who support "the money changers in the temple" while ignoring "the least of these" are not following the tenants of Christianity, no matter how much they may "publicise"their alleged beliefs.

As for Republican policies being about anything other than "screw you, I got mine". Please demonstrate a conservative policy that is not entirely self-serving.

 

intrinsic: belonging to the essential nature or constitution of a thing

And I quote ""

It's superseded by the NT. In so many ways, to include the very matter we're talking about; the part you quoted doesn't apply.

They aren't universal commandments, and don't apply to Christians. It pays to make a genuine attempt to understand the structure of a belief system you wish to criticize. Context matters.

A) it's not a difference between commandments and instructions, it's a difference between commandments and instruction give to the Hebrews at a specific time in the OT. Commandments are universal, instructions are limited, applying to a specific people, time, and/or place.
B) Why would I? That's a straw man.

Well I imagine that's hard to do, since the "F YOU" GOP ideology doesn't exist.

Have you ever given to charity? Do you know how it works? That 15% goes towards administrative costs and advertising, mostly advertising.

Yes, let's be honest - that's extraneous and anecdotal. And the growing number of megachurches is irrelevant. A megachurch is quite literally a church with 2000 or more weekly adherents. That's a reflection of urbanization - and that's about it.

Which, relatively speaking, would be liberals.

Why? You made the claim that they are, yet have been unable to prove that a single one does. It is admittedly a tall order, since "screw you, I got mine" isn't representative in any policy. You'd have us believe that if Bill Gates believed we should have more checks on waste in welfare programs, but donated 80billion dollars to feed the poor, that he's saying, "screw you, I got mine." That phrase isn't inherent in any policy, it's inherent in how individuals accord themselves.

 

The F U ideology does seem to exist in the GOP. I get the whole idea that personal charity is more important than tax contribution, because the way tax revenue is distributed is out of individuals control. But the way taxes are opposed is pretty uncharitable, it focuses on racial divides and blames inequity on individual failings, not the typical christian values.

Besides which most of the GOP is all about military funding. How is that christian?

Maybe the truth is different from the perception, but I don't see the GOP contradicting it.

 

I'm with you until the last sentence - I don't get what you mean by opposition to taxes being uncharitable or focusing on racial divides.

It's not particularly Christian or unChristian. This is part of how the parties are coalitions - it's oversimplification to think of the GOP as just Christian, it has so many other elements that draw people who aren't Christian, but these often overlap, rather than being separate.

I'm not sure if you're agreeing with me or not.

 

The way opposition to taxes is often framed is that the money is being wasted on programs for minorities and illegal immigrants. The sentiment that public funds should not be used to help the poor is not particularly charitable, regardless of a persons individual philanthropy.

The OP has a valid point in that the GOP seems to stand solidly against many of the things commonly thought of as christian values. The only ones it seems to uphold are the ones dealing with sexual orientation and sexual conduct. We see a very authoritarian and merciless view of god from the conservative perspective, anyone who falls on bad times should only be saved by his grace, otherwise its gods will they are not.

I understand that there is almost no poverty in the US by world standards, but this is only true because we do have programs. Getting rid of all of them in the name of lower taxes will not improve the situation for people at US standard poverty levels, all you have to do is look at Kansas right now to see how that works.

 

Right wingers love to pretend that government has no role in providing welfare for the needs of the citizenry. Yet, all they need do is to read Genesis 47 et seq where it shows government providing sustenance in times of want. If these Republicans were truly Christian as they pretend to be, all they need do is to give away all their wealth to the poor. But they never do because of their Pharisaism.

 

Are you claiming that GOP policies do not favor the rich over the poor?

By all means, clarify which parts of the OT you believe no longer apply, and on what basis.

What makes you believe they aren't universal, and what makes you believe they don't apply to Christians? Does God have a double standard when it comes to what's right and wrong?

In other words, you want to cherry pick what applies to you and what is inconvenient. Got it.

It's a strawman to ask you to clarify your statement? Do you have any idea what a straw man is?

Really?! You don't believe people working full time for minimum wage feel they're being told "F**K YOU" when the cost of living climbs (along with business profits and CEO salaries) while Republicans simultaneously villify them as "takers" while fighting a wage increase that would allow them to stop relying on assistance...?

Yeah, and those "Christian" charities all work to control their costs, right?
Gospel to the Unreached Millions (GUM) has "administrative expenses" of 43.1%, and happens to be based in Houston.
Changed Lives has "administrative expenses" of 47.4%, and happens to be based in Tennessee.
American Tract Society has "administrative expenses" of 68.0%, also based in Texas.

Transparent dodge. You seem to be claiming that urbanization doubles every 10 years, which is BS.
Besides, what does that have to do with the fact that they are run as for-profit businesses - and comprise a significant portion of what you want to claim is "charitable donation", despite the fact that the primary (if not only) beneficiaries are the pastors?
http://www.therichest.com/expensive...naire-pastors-and-their-celebrity-lifestyles/

What are you babbling about? Please demonstrate how "liberals" are the ones supporting today's "moneychangers in the temple", given that - as has already been illustrated - it's conservatives providing these donations that you pretend are "charitable".

Oh, you want an example of this...?
How about all those policies relating to the failed "trickle down" theory? You know, the ones that gave more money to the wealthy while screwing everyone else. http://w2.vatican.va/content/france...sortazione-ap_20131124_evangelii-gaudium.html
Maybe the contemporary "deregulation" push by Republicans, which will clearly result in more polluted drinking water (http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/groundwater-contamination-may-end-the-gas-fracking-boom/) and more oil spills (http://www.nola.com/news/gulf-oil-spill/index.ssf/2010/05/oil_disaster_brought_to_you_by.html) - not to mention more exploding factories (http://rt.com/usa/texas-fertilizer-plant-explosion-036/)
Perhaps the Republican push to increase the cost of education is certainly another example, as is their partisan vote to maintain the ability for corporations and other large donors to buy their votes - rather than actually adhering to the will of their constituents.

 

Oh, let's not overlook certain conservatives directly and blatantly contradicting the teachings of Jesus in order to justify their views...
Clearly, this is the type of person "good Christians" should side with...
[video=youtube_share;GfCH7mokI-E]http://youtu.be/GfCH7mokI-E[/video]
It seems that conservativism has infiltrated religion (rather than the other way around) to such an extent that many people who claim to be followers of Christianity no longer believe in his basic teachings.
Surely these people should form their own religion, rather than pretend they're Christians... Perhaps it could be called "sociopathity".

 

Actually the conservative Christian feelings towards the poor is more aligned with traditional hindu feelings towards the poor. Remember the caste system? When Rupert Sheldrake the biologist was working in India to help develop crops that would help in more yield in order to feed the poor, his reason for doing that work in india was questioned by the hindus around him. Why help the poor, they asked, for the poor were poor and starving because of their own karma in in past lives, and it was their own fault they were poor and starving. So why help them? This question got the atheist Sheldrake thinking, and he realized that the religion of his nation, Christianity was different from other religions, in wanting to help the poor, even if through using tax money to do that, and he left atheism and joined the Anglican church. So clearly a conservative Christian is more similar to Hinduism when it comes to their beliefs about the poor.

He has also said that secularism had many of the Christian ethics behind it, they just got rid of the god. I have always found the conservative Christian stance towards the rich, that they hold them up to be emulated against the teaching of Christ, the man they profess to believe in, incoherent. David Ramsey is a good example of this. Now he is a charitable man, but the idea of giving away much of his wealth is something he would not find agreeable to. He worships money just as much as those characters in the bible how worshipped it. Therefore, he isn't a Christian if by that you mean a man who follows the teachings of Christ. Just another wealthy fake.

 

The Republican faith (Republicanism, if you will) comprises select elements of traditional Christianity (e.g. intolerance of other faiths, feeling holier than thou, putting convicted criminals to death, publicly stoning adulterers, etc.) as well as new ideas about secular government and how to apply select portions of the King James Bible to it.

The end result is a kind of Republicanist Sharia Law.

 

Jesus is Prince of Peace.

Republicans are the party of war, hate, intolerance, materialism, etc.

Therefore, a true Christian cannot be Republican.

A true Christian must keep GOOD company and refrain from associating with the Antichrist and his fellow evildoers:






Bible verses related to Bad Company from the King James Version (KJV)


1 Corinthians 15:33 - Be not deceived: evil communications corrupt good manners.

Proverbs 13:20 - He that walketh with wise [men] shall be wise: but a companion of fools shall be destroyed.

1 Corinthians 5:11 - But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.

Proverbs 3:5-6 - Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. (Read More...)

Proverbs 14:7 - Go from the presence of a foolish man, when thou perceivest not [in him] the lips of knowledge.

1 Corinthians 10:13 - There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God [is] faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear [it].

John 3:18 - He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Psalms 26:4-5 - I have not sat with vain persons, neither will I go in with dissemblers. (Read More...)

Psalms 119:115 - Depart from me, ye evildoers: for I will keep the commandments of my God.

2 Peter 3:9 - The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Proverbs 22:24-25 - Make no friendship with an angry man; and with a furious man thou shalt not go: (Read More...)

Psalms 1:1-4 - Blessed [is] the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful. (Read More...)

1 Corinthians 13:5 - Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil;

Revelation 17:8 - The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

1 John 4:1 - Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

1 Corinthians 5:11-13 - But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat. (Read More...)

Matthew 6:33 - But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.

Revelation 20:14-15 - And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. (Read More...)

Jude 1:6 - And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

1 John 1:9 - If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us [our] sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

1 Timothy 2:4 - Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

1 Corinthians 6:18 - Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body.

Revelation 13:8 - And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

1 John 2:15-17 - Love not the world, neither the things [that are] in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him. (Read More...)

Hebrews 13:4 - Marriage [is] honourable in all, and the bed undefiled: but whoremongers and adulterers God will judge.

Philippians 4:8 - Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things [are] honest, whatsoever things [are] just, whatsoever things [are] pure, whatsoever things [are] lovely, whatsoever things [are] of good report; if [there be] any virtue, and if [there be] any praise, think on these things.

2 Corinthians 6:14 - Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?

Matthew 19:28 - And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

Matthew 10:28 - And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Proverbs 25:26 - A righteous man falling down before the wicked [is as] a troubled fountain, and a corrupt spring.

Proverbs 20:1 - Wine [is] a mocker, strong drink [is] raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise.

Psalms 1:1 - Blessed [is] the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful.

Revelation 12:3 - And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.

Revelation 9:5 - And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment [was] as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.

1 John 3:18 - My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.

John 3:17 - For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

Matthew 7:21-23 - Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. (Read More...)

1 John 2:2 - And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for [the sins of] the whole world.

Hebrews 4:12 - For the word of God [is] quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and [is] a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

Titus 3:5 - Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

Ephesians 6:11 - Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.

Ephesians 4:17 - This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity of their mind,

Romans 10:13 - For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Acts 10:34 - Then Peter opened [his] mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:

Acts 2:38 - Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Acts 2:21 - And it shall come to pass, [that] whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.

John 16:33 - These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.

John 8:44 - Ye are of [your] father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

Matthew 6:31-33 - Therefore take no thought, saying, What shall we eat? or, What shall we drink? or, Wherewithal shall we be clothed? (Read More...)

Matthew 5:30 - And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast [it] from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not [that] thy whole body should be cast into hell.

Matthew 5:28 - But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

Hosea 13:14 - I will ransom them from the power of the grave; I will redeem them from death: O death, I will be thy plagues; O grave, I will be thy destruction: repentance shall be hid from mine eyes.

Hosea 4:6 - My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children.

Psalms 82:6 - I have said, Ye [are] gods; and all of you [are] children of the most High.






http://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Bible-Verses-About-Bad-Company/

 

Ummm, it is the Cons that continue to pass laws that impose their beliefs on others, so your claim begins with a major un-truth.

 

Re-read your Bible.


Jesus ordered his followers to pay their taxes. And he ordered them to drop their weapons because he was Prince of Peace, not war.

Many rightwingers (not all) do not obey him but do the precise opposite of all he stood for. This makes them antichrists.

 

Actually the answer is more straightforward than most people think:

Many people who are deeply religious prefer a conservative party. Or any party which claims "it used to be better when". So if there is a lot of backwards addressed idealism, then people with deep religious beliefs feel more at home. This is true pretty much all across Christian countries.

Whether the Democrats or Republican party claims "it used to be better when" is irrelevant. The further it goes back and the more often it comes, the more deeply religious people tend to like it.

 

So you're saying that deeply religious people are so enamoured with remeniscence that they fall for any politician who says "It used to be better when... we had teachers leading prayer in schools", even if that politician's actions contradict every aspect of their alleged religious beliefs?

That would make deeply religious people kinda stupid, wouldn't it?

 

thanks for the information giving post
thanks for sharing with us

 

I wasn't judging. I was pointing out the tendencies, and it is just a tendency not the norm.

The enlightenment period was the first time in our history where people started pointing at a better future, rather than to look at the better past (which tended to be Roman times in that day and age). But enlightened doesn't mean religious. Most people who are deeply religious follow the anti-enlightened teachings of their church, which is more directed towards the past than the future. And this tendency has not changed the last 250 years. Science and enlightenment clash today pretty much on every day bases with the past-oriented teachings of religion. And people who are religious know these types of teachings and those types of teachings are reflected in their beliefs. So if someone says "It used to be better back in the 60s or 70s than now" and runs their policies that way, it is more likely that this message hits religious people who are used to these types of teachings.

 

Christians don't like Ghandi much, either, he called Hitler his "friend". Anybody who murders as many people as Hitler did (including Dietrich Bonhoeffer, in the most ghastly way possible) is no friend of ours.

 

I'm new here, so I don't want to step on your toes, but you are right in that the religious right is on the wrong side of the argument when it comes to most of its views. All religious nuts should technically be democrats, as it is their altruistic dogma to sacrifice their belongings to others. Absolute rights, and the right to own property are not things Christians hold dear. It is the leftists' as well as the Christian's communal nature and practice to ignore ones right to prosper and gain from ones personal accomplishments. The right of a human being to use logic and reason is frowned upon, whereas belief in the "common good" and the mystical is upheld.
Democrats and liberals should have full copyright to god. If Jesus existed and told his followers to give up their property, it's because he was too chicken to say no.

 

This is Bob from the other forum where you and Max posts along with Alyosha, etc.

What is the religious right? What is a religious nut? There is a lot of misunderstanding about christian churches. [MENTION=67053]Captain Obvious[/MENTION]

 

My point in the above post was that both the right and left stake moral claim based on altruistic motives. But since I believe that altruism is the ultimate evil in the world, I see the contradictions in both "moralities".
The religious right's claim to morality is based on biblical teachings and so is the left. The rights claim to morality is directed more in an individualist mode, while the left's claim is more of a collectivist mode.
Jesus was a full on flaming liberal by today's standards, but the left doesn't want Jesus, they only want his teachings. The left seeths at the opportunity to care about the depravity of man, but will not tolerate the idea that man does not have to be depraved.
The right loves to preach righteousness and liberty and freedom, but will not tolerate freedoms outside biblical confines.
Both camps take turns ignoring reason. Both camps borrow reason and distorted mystical truths to compensate for lack of reason. Both, borrow science and logic sometimes and ignore it others.

Religious nuts include any and all fundamentalist religious groups.

 

And this is why AGNOSTICS SHALL INHERIT THE EARTH! LOL!!!

Then starts the entry to 2112 by RUSH.

WE'VE TAKEN CARE OF EVERYTHING...THE WORDS YOU WRITE THE SONGS YOU SING.

THE PICTURES THAT GIVE PLEASURE TO YOUR EYES.

AboveAlpha

- - - Updated - - -

Although his MIND IS NOT FOR RENT.....TO ANY GOD OR GOVERNMENT.....ALWAYS HOPE FOR YOUR DISCONTENT....AND THOSE CHANGES AREN'T PERMANENT......

....BUT CHANGE IS!

AboveAlpha

 

Republicans think rich successful people should be emulated, and if you do not, you are lazy and to be looked down at. Republicans think greed is a good thing, for it allows humans to become rich, and rich people are a group that republicans hold in high esteem. So, obviously republicans, the ones who think in this manner are not of Christ and are antichrist in their beliefs. This is clear and the teachings of Christ who they say they believe in shows us what republicans are.

The Christ of the NT doesn't want people to be poor and to suffer, but he didn't want people to be rich either. For he knew, as we know today, that the only way any man gets rich is by not being fair in what the gives to his workers, and what he keeps for himself. And then he hoards his share, until he can end up with more than can be spent in 10 lifetimes, even as other human beings literally starve to death.

God gave the earth and his bountiful resources so that all of his human beings and other life might thrive. But he left it up to man, to do the right thing, to share equally in these resources. But man would not do that, for some men were driven by greed and selfishness. And so there arose upon the earth the rich and the poor. But that was not what god intended, for he gave all men the earths resources that all might share in it and all thrive.

Yet he left it up to man to do the right thing. That we would not, is the root of human suffering when it comes to resources, and having enough to thrive. The republicans believe in a few men hoarding resources, which they can never use, and so there are no republican follower of Christ. But many follow satan, and are happy to do that.

 

I feel sorry for you that you view mankind in such an insufferable way. If all men were to suffer such depravity and depend on handouts, who would be handing it out? You are severly misguided in what you think Republicans believe sir. The place where humans lived where no one was rich and everyone was equally shabby did exist. In Soviet Russia.

Most Republicans believe in hope. Hope that they will have the opportunity to provide a good life for themselves and the ones they love without having to provide for others who choose to live a slothful non driven life. They do not choose to relish in victimhood and live in depravity. Since you believe in god, wouldn't it be the greatest sin not use the mind that was given to him to achieve?