Russian Flags Raised In Ukraine's South- How Far Will This Go?

The UkraInian Parliament voted the President out, I'm sorry that the Putin Puppet Medvedev doesn't support democracy in the Ukraine the same as he does not support democracy in Russia but this just goes to prove who the true provocateurs are in this situation, first Russia started an economic war against the Ukraine and now they are violating their sovereignty by sending in soldiers and violating Ukrainian sovereignty in overt violation of international law.

 

Either you're spinning everything for the Obama administration or for some self serving reason like homosexual marriages, which in your mind supersedes the lives that will be lost in Ukraine because of our actions, or you really don't know what's going on. So here's an informative excerpt from an article in Spiegle on integrating Ukraine into the E.U.
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"...There's a weakness to this strategy though: In contrast to the former Baltic Soviet republics with their small populations, it would be difficult to integrate Ukraine with its 45 million residents in the same way.

The country is also deeply divided. The economically weak regions in the west are bastions of nationalists(these are the protesters). And Ukraine's major companies, like its steel mills, ship and turbine building operations are located in the east and are focused on the Russian market.

Russian is the predominant language in daily use in the capital city of Kiev, millions of Russians live in the eastern part of the country and on the Crimea as well. The Black Sea peninsula was first transferred to Ukraine in 1954, and against the will of the people living there.

Indeed, Crimea could soon become the next hot spot in the conflict. Russia's Black Sea fleet is stationed in Sevastopol, a source of irritation for Ukrainian nationalists and friends of the United States..."

 

Face, you - Excuse me, how old are you? I read yesterday in a Greek news source that armed thugs in Kiev surrounded a Russian monastery in Kiev and were ordering them out. The 'pseudo' government in Kiev is illegitimate because it needs the president's signature to be legitimate and he left.

 

Our actions? It is Russia who has engaged in trade warfare against the Ukraine and it is Russia who has sent troops to the Crimea, our actions are support for the majority of Ukrainians who support entrance into the EU.

Again the Crimea has nominal self governance if they want to secede from the Ukraine I say let them put it to a referendum and allow the people there to choose, I doubt the majority wish to secede. Is there any polling data to confirm this? And once again I have to ask why exactly does joining the EU mean that they have to sever ties with the Russian market? The only reason why that would be the case is because Russia prefers confrontation to cooperation.

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He did not leave he was voted out by the Parliament, it is analogous to the impeachment process in the United States.

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way...sters-uneasy-president-reportedly-leaves-kiev

 

Yeah, the Soviet Union was such an economic success that there were no daily queues for bread or basic consumer goods when they made their rare appearance in the shops.
I visited Communist Poland in 1960 and the situation there was identical. My parents were sending monthly food parcels and basic stuff like soap and coffee and citrus fruit to relatives in Warsaw because the Communists were economically clueless.

 

So are you excusing the ethnic cleansing of Stalin as justifiable? How about the Holodomor which was an intentional genocide of the Ukrainian people through forced starvation under the practice of excess grain exports even though there had been enough grain to feed everyone just fine, through forced grain seizure from the Ukrainian peasantry, through forced deportation to areas experiencing famine, and through refusal to seek international assistance.

 

It's claims like his that make you wonder if they're just trolling.

 

I suspect it's more to do with brainwashing.

 

One in seven Ukrainians, including almost the entire intellectual and cultural elite, was murdered by Stalin. An appalling genocide - think of the Katyn massacre and then multiply it a hundred times over.

 

Or because socialism sucks and Eastern Europe was only happy to throw off its yoke. You know that Berlin Wall was to keep people in right?

 

If Yakunovich was such a great democrat and Ukrainian patriot, why did much of his own political party just repudiate him? Jeanette should remember that although the Ukraine may be Russia's Canada (putting Russia in the position of the USA) we never brutally annexed Canada, treated them like second class citizens or engineered an artificial famine that killed millions of Canadians. Given that past history, it is surprising that there are still a reasonable number of Ukrainians that DON'T want to try reaching out to the West as their modern alternative.

Putin was not an altruist. This whole affair was designed to bring the Ukraine back so deep into the Russian orbit (by the way, the money was low interest loans rather than grants and there was no guarantee that the reduced gas prices would stay reduced) that it would never slip out again. Economic conquest backed up by the iron fist sitting across the border and at harbor in the Crimea (Black Sea Fleet)

If this had been decided by a process of lengthy debate and an election held specifically on the issue that would be one thing, but it was sprung on the Ukrainian public without warning and was basically bulldozed into being by the executive branch of the government. Sounds pretty undemocratic to me!

 

Many European countries are still technically socialist albeit a form of market socialism, the problem with the Soviet Union is that they were Marxist, they were a totalitarian dictatorship of the proletariat which waged class warfare and democide against their political enemies. There are many forms of socialism, Communism/Marxism would be a form of socialism taken to its most extreme.

 

Learn some history kid. The Soviet Union was founded by Jewish/Polish/German Marxist ideologues. It was an international system composed of Russian, Georgian, Ukrainians, Poles, etc. Russia was the first country they took over, and twenty million Russians died because of it. The suffering was unimaginable. As for Stalin, he was a Georgian and he was the one who ordered the food to be taken and sent to Russia. The Soviet in charge of Ukraine was Khruschev, and he was a Ukrainian.

What is going on in Ukraine, has nothing to do with the Soviet Union, and everything to do with the historical East/West religious divide which has been going on for centuries in that part of the world.

 

Marx would be turning in his grave at that interpretation.

 

your wiki cites another ideological hogwash you've been fed since at school as required by the tycoons that rule 'west democracies' that is corporocracies.

 

Because he didn't protect his country and people by reacting more strongly towards the rebels at the beginning of the protest, and by not doing so, allowed them to take over. He was never allied with Russia though, and even wanted to join Nato as well as the E.U., but Russia was the only country willing to forward money immediately to keep the government going.

Uhhh! The first place to be conquered by the Jewish/Polish/German Marxist Ideologues was Russia and twenty million died because of them, so it has nothing to do with the Soviet Union since Stalin was a Georgian, not Russian, and Khruschev the Soviet who was in charge of Ukraine at the time of the holodymir was Ukrainian. So the animosity has nothing to do with the Soviet Union, it has to do with the animosity against Russia which stems from the historical East/West religious divide between the Orthodox world and the Roman Catholic one.

Let's look at reality. The Crimea did not belong to Ukraine, it belonged to Russia and was given to Ukraine by Khruschev. When they split from Russia they should have given it back and by not doing so, they created the same kind of resentment that we would have had if Canada or Mexico was to take away part of the U.S.

Right now there are Twenty Seven thousand Russian troops in Sevastapol. The people are waving Russian flags and they kicked out the mayor. He was the only mayor in Ukraine who was appointed by Kiev rather than elected by the people and when he said that Crimea should remain part of Ukraine they booed him and kicked him out. They now have a Russian mayor, and are not taking orders from Kiev who they consider illegal. This is only the beginning though, there is still the whole Eastern part of Ukraine which is highly industrialized and intertwined with Russia.

 

no there wasn't any, only at the moment when Gorbie went too far with his perestroika, and the footages of bread lines portray only that period of the late 1980s not the entire USSR span, but this is only that you are allowed to see by your local mass media to make impression as if the USSR was always like that.

 

because Capitalism sucks and always employs dastardly base methods to do away with competitors.

 

It was a Russian system, the overwhelming majority of Bolsheviks and the Central Committee Comisars were Russian IE they were citizens of the Russian Empire prior to the White and Red revolutions.

In 1907 78.3% of the Bolsheviks were Russian and 10% were Jewish (34 and 20% for the Mensheviks).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bolsheviks#Composition_of_the_party

Here is a list of the hierarchy of the Bolsheviks, the majority of them were Russian born Christians and to a much lesser extent Russian born Jews, (as if being Russian and Jewish was a mutually exclusive concept).

http://semiticcontroversies.blogspot.com/2008/10/judeo-bolshevik-debacle.html

Kruschev was not in charge of the Ukraine Stalin was in charge of Kruschev; furthermore, Hitler was an Austrian so are you going to assert that the holocaust was an Austrian rather than a German inflicted genocide? Spare me. Russia was the centralized controlling nation of the Soviet Union, the Holodomor is a Russian crime just as the Holocaust is a German crime. Furthermore; Stalin was born in Georgia when it was a part of the Russian Empire, he was a Russian citizen.

What are you talking about? The majority of Ukrainians are orthodox just like the majority of Russians. The reason why they distrust and dislike the Russians is because of the brutal Soviet occupation which began with the Soviet conquest of the Ukrainian peoples republic in 1919 and the genocide inflicted upon them under that occupation.

 

Marx and Engels were state terror promoting bastards, they advocated a tyranny of the masses, racism, anti-Semitism, authoritarianism, and the democide of the rival classes through state terror.



"Thus we find every tyrant backed by a Jew, as is every pope by a Jesuit. In truth, the cravings of oppressors would be hopeless, and the practicability of war out of the question, if there were not an army of Jesuits to smother thought and a handful of Jews to ransack pockets.
...the real work is done by the Jews, and can only be done by them, as they monopolize the machinery of the loan-mongering mysteries by concentrating their energies upon the barter trade in securities... Here and there and everywhere that a little capital courts investment, there is ever one of these little Jews ready to make a little suggestion or place a little bit of a loan. The smartest highwayman in the Abruzzi is not better posted up about the locale of the hard cash in a traveler's valise or pocket than those Jews about any loose capital in the hands of a trader... The language spoken smells strongly of Babel, and the perfume which otherwise pervades the place is by no means of a choice kind.

Thus do these loans, which are a curse to the people, a ruin to the holders, and a danger to the governments, become a blessing to the houses of the children of Judah. This Jew organization of loan-mongers is as dangerous to the people as the aristocratic organization of landowners... The fortunes amassed by these loan-mongers are immense, but the wrongs and sufferings thus entailed on the people and the encouragement thus afforded to their oppressors still remain to be told.

The fact that 1855 years ago Christ drove the Jewish moneychangers out of the temple, and that the moneychangers of our age enlisted on the side of tyranny happen again chiefly to be Jews, is perhaps no more than a historical coincidence. The loan-mongering Jews of Europe do only on a larger and more obnoxious scale what many others do on one smaller and less significant. But it is only because the Jews are so strong that it is timely and expedient to expose and stigmatize their organization."
- Karl Marx, "The Russian Loan", New York Daily Tribune, 4 January 1856


"We have no compassion and we ask no compassion from you. When our turn comes, we shall not make excuses for the terror."
- Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels "Suppression of the Neue Rheinische Zeitung", Neue Rheinische Zeitung, May 19, 1849


"The workers... must try as much as ever possible to counteract all bourgeois attempts at appeasement, and compel the democrats to carry out their present terrorist phrases. They must act in such a manner that the revolutionary excitement does not collapse immediately after the victory. On the contrary, they must maintain it as long as possible. Far from opposing so-called excesses, such as sacrificing to popular revenge of hated individuals or public buildings to which hateful memories are attached, such deeds must not only be tolerated, but their direction must be taken in hand, for examples' sake. ...from the first moment of victory we must no longer direct our distrust against the beaten reactionary enemy, but against our former allies [the democratic forces], against the party who are now about to exploit the common victory for their own ends only. ... The arming of the whole proletariat with rifles, guns, and ammunition should be carried out at once [and] the workers must ... organize themselves into an independent guard, with their own chiefs and general staff, to put themselves under the order, not of the [new] Government, but of the revolutionary authorities set up by the workers. ... Destruction of the influence of bourgeois democracy over the workers ...[is a main point] which the proletariat, and therefore also the League, has to keep in eye during and after the coming upheaval. ...to be able effectively to oppose the petty bourgeois democracy. In order that [the democratic party] whose betrayal of the workers will begin with the first hour of victory, should be frustrated in its nefarious work, it is necessary to organize and arm the proletariat."
- Karl Marx "Address to the Communist League" March 1850, cited in E. Burns (ed): A Handbook of Marxism 1935, p.66-68.

"It would perhaps be as well if things were to remain quiet for a few years yet, so that all this 1848 democracy has time to rot away."
- Karl Marx to Joseph Weydemayer (Letter, 27 Juni 1851)

"Have these gentlemen ever seen a revolution? A revolution is certainly the most authoritarian thing there is; it is an act whereby one part of the population imposes its will upon the other part by means of rifles, bayonets and cannon, all of which are highly authoritarian means. And the victorious party must maintain its rule by means of the terror which its arms inspire in the reactionaries. Would the Paris Commune have lasted more than a day if it had not used the authority of the armed people against the bourgeoisie? Cannot we, on the contrary, blame it for having made too little use of that authority?"
- Friedrich Engels: "Controversy with the Anarchists", 1873

"That a host of somewhat muddled and purely democratic demands should figure in the programme, some of them being of a purely fashionable nature -- for instance "legislation by the people" such as exists in Switzerland and does more harm than good, if it can be said to do anything at all.... Now, since the state is merely a transitional institution of which use is made in the struggle, in the revolution, to keep down one's enemies by force, it is utter madness to speak of a free people's state; so long as the proletariat still makes use of the state, it makes use of it, not for the purpose of freedom, but of keeping down its enemies."
- Friedrich Engels to August Bebel, (Letter, 18-28 March 1875):

I can provide many many more.

 

Yes because there was not stagflation, hyperinflation, and mass shortages of even basic consumer goods under the totalitarian Soviet Union.

 

Oh, and I thought Karl Marx was a German Jew. My mistake!

Who said they weren't Russian citizens?

Not if you consider the pogroms and persecutions towards the Jews, and the terrorism and suicide attacks by the Jews which averaged about five hundred a year. They were as similar to one another as the Israelis are to the Palestinians and vs.

So then if the holodymir was a Russian and not a Soviet crime, then the killing of twenty million Russians could not have been a Soviet crime, but a Russian crime? Does that mean the Ukrainians who were Soviets, were Russian criminals and not Ukrainians?

They don't hate the Russians, only the Greek Catholics hate them. Didn't you notice that the papers always mentioned that the protesters were coming in from the Western part of Ukraine? That's the Greek Catholic side, and they are the ultra nationalists.

 

Issuing an arrest warrant for the legitimately elected president wasn't a very good idea, he has no reason to turn himself in.

 

Marx didn't found the Bolsheviks, Russians did.

You did in your laughable attempt to play off Russian culpability for the Ukrainian genocide.

500 suicide attacks by Jews against Russians per year? For how many years? Do you have a single scrap of documentation to back this ludicrous claim up?

Abject nonsense, Jews with Russian citizenship were RUSSIANS, regardless the overwhelming majority of the Bolsheviks were ethnic Russians anyways.

Yes the Russian leadership during the Soviet Union committed democide against their own citizenry, your attempts to separate Russian and Soviet history is akin to trying to separate German and Nazi history, it is actually quite amusing to watch.

The puppet masters in Moscow are responsible for the crimes of their Ukrainian puppets, the Ukraine was under Soviet military occupation.

You're just making up BS, a large plurality if not an outright majority of the Ukrainian citizens support entrance into the EU and the protests against the pro-Russian government, I have polling data to back up my claims you have nonsensical and outlandish claims. The ultra nationalists do not in anyway support the majority of the protestors, the Svoboda are a minority party and form no coalition with any other represented party in the Ukrainian parliament, this is typical comintern propaganda, label your political enemies fascists regardless of the veracity of the claims and repeat it often and loudly until some of the bull(*)(*)(*)(*) sticks.

 

no there wasn't, except for the sabotage on the part of treacherous Soviet bureaucracy who fancied themseves as new Rothshields and Onasises and thus conspired with the West to sabotage the Soviet economy in order to compel the peoples embrace the distruction of USSR.