Sandy Hook families settle for $73M with gun maker Remington

No we may find out WHY America has such a high gun death toll and amazingly that probably will not involve “taking guns away”.

Please, please, please do not peddle that racist bunk about “it’s black men” I called out other posters for it. It is NEVER just one factor. Poverty plays a role as does policing and the society and,,,,,,yes possibly “gangsta rap” but I only included the last because I think it is the antithesis of music.


You COULD correlate the Mississippi delta with gun deaths or voting Republican or gun laws remember correlation does not necessarily equal causation

Now did you actually read the rest of that research? it is a Lit review so more than one study is supporting the conclusion.



http://www.businessinsider.com.au/gun-ownership-by-state-2015-7?r=US&IR=T
Here is gun ownership per state and lookee here - same areas are darker
Keeping in mind correlation does not equal causation

Now let’s look at a side by side gun laws and gun homicide

https://edition.cnn.com/2022/01/20/us/everytown-weak-gun-laws-high-gun-deaths-study/index.html

 

Quite a list of demands there - silly part is everyone has heard of recalls for vehicles

 

Yes, it's like he/she/it is asking me a question from some absurd assumption about something I didn't say in the first place.

An excellent point it is!

 

I particularly like your first two paragraphs.

The pro-gun buffoons keep ranting about "the gun" and how its removal will cause even more murder by means of other sorts of weapons - the destruction of the US Consitution and its Amendment(s) - and the definite ushering of Communism. When you ask them for an alternative solution to the problem of mass murder in the US .. they have none to offer.

And when you try to appease them with a box of chocolates (as your own alternative to gun removal) and school them on the benefits of improving Democracy, cleaning up the nation with equal rights, better wages, a sustainable minimum wage, providing jobs and/or fair unemployment benefits then they get indignant and their knickers go straight up the crack and they go on about "Oh no! That's Communism and before you know it Stalin will rise from the grave and start sending truckloads of Americans to the Gulag!"

It's a circle of idiocy that gets dumber by the minute.

 

Too bad poverty doesn’t explain it. Hence why blacks commit a disproportionate amount of violent crime at EVERY income level

 

Sure we have something to offer. You just don’t like it. We need MORE people with firearms. Why? Because a criminal is FAR less likely to commit a crime against someone he knows is armed than he is against someone he knows is not armed.

And give me a ****ing break how long are you folks going to hold on to this tired tripe about “cleaning up the nation with equal rights”? Exactly who is unequal in regards to their rights and in what way?

 

Oh and for the record if we change our black population rate to match that of other first world countries, our violent crime rate would be comparable or lower to essentially every other first world nation. Same would be true if we increased those country’s black population rate to match ours.

So in summation we do not have a gun problem. We have a black problem.

 

I am a gun owner, and a proponent of the right to self defense, and it absolutely tickles me pink that the very existence of the 2nd Amendment pisses you gun grabbers off as much as it does, but I have a question?

Despite the fact that I own an AR-15 clone, and multiple other handguns and long guns, I have never once been "marketed to" by a gun manufacturer. I've never gotten junk mail, never gotten junk e-mail, never seen a commercial, never seen an ad online... Nada. That tells me that you have to go out of your way to get marketed to (say by subscribing to some sort of firearms review magazine or similar), which would make ME responsible for any marketing efforts that I consume.

Granted, this is a horrible case to read anything precedential from, being that it was a voluntary settlement by insurance providers to a defunct company (I suppose they figured the cost to win in Court, which they inevitable would have, was more than the $73M), but it seems to me that makes ME responsible for the very fact that I got marketed to at all.

Things that make you go hmmm....

But I do have some good news for y'all, the 2A ain't going anywhere, people will still be able to buy AR-15 clones (which, of course, is a drop in the overall ocean of firearms deaths, the real problem is illegally owned handguns owned by young black men being used to kill other black men, but nobody cares about that), and other guns, and the world will keep on spinning. If I weren't so mobility limited (I've only been to the range once since my disability struck), I might go out and buy another one just to stick my thumb in the eye of gun grabbers, but I suppose I should use the one I got from time to time first, before doing that.

 

Yep! Don't improve anything at all because change = Communism!

 

I wonder what your definition of "pissed off" is.

Really? How much is that?

 

No an ideology that pushes that the collective right is more important than the individual right derives itself from communism.

 

Actually, it's the other way around and in any case communism seeks to ENHANCE individualism using collective means but never mind....

 

Conservatism=White supremacy

What more proof do we need?

 

I’m sorry... Are you refuting my statistics? Cause I don’t think you want to do that.

 

Yep! Communism is destroying America!

 

That's too complicated for him.

 

No, I'm disputing your interpretation of them

No, I think he understands perfectly.

 

I find your suggestion that I would "peddle that racist bunk" offensive. Up to this point I have actually enjoyed our discussions. You make statements and post information that really make me think about the issues and make me consider other perspectives.

My posting the statistics of young black male murder victims, while a reference to race, is in no way racist. These statistics were compiled by the CDC and are considered fact. Just like it is a fact that of the 23,941 suicides, listed in that same Vital Statistics Report, 17,329 were white males.

The fact remains the majority of firearms homicides, (58.5%) in the US, are young black males. The real tragedy is this fact is ignored by most of those seeking tougher gun control laws. They worry about AR15 "assault weapons" because they are used to kill a few white school children. If the concern of those gun control advocates was really about saving lives they would be concentrating their efforts on laws that would get the illegal handguns out of the neighborhoods where those young black men are being killed on a daily basis. The true concern of anti-gun politicians is getting reelected not saving the lives of young Americans.

Your maps and links provide some interesting information but none of it changes the fact that the ten most heavily armed states in the US all have murder rates well below the national average. States like Wyoming and Idaho, while having well over 50% gun ownership rates, have murder rates that are 15.5% and 14% respectively, of the national rate.

I did read the Harvard link. I already had that paper downloaded as a PDF. I'd added it to my collection in internet misinformation on firearms. At #3 in that link it claims "Across states, more guns = more homicide". Do your own research, that statement can be easily proven wrong in just a few minutes. And I am not suggesting proving it wrong with some crazy right wing/Fox News/Tucker/Rogan BS. To support my claim there information from The Bureau of Justice, The FBI, National Institutes of Health, Census Bureau and research firms such as Pew.

 

Fair enough. How would you interpret the fact that if we remove 6% of the total population that are black males our violent crime rate is cut basically in half and our gun violence rate drops to below that of nearly every first world country.

 

At this juncture, I am more concerned about how you interpret "a fact".

 

I maintain they are racist when you fail to take into account social factors. Does the colour of someone’s skin make them more vulnerable to death by gun? If so what is being done to address this. I think the WORST aspect of this by far is that those deaths are dismissed. Diminished and almost removed from the gun death equation as if they were not human and did not count.

So, I posted a Literature review, solid science and you response is to name a couple of rural sparsely populated states as “proof” this was not true

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S002796842030451X

Doesn’t matter though - they are black - no one cares if they are not “Gerber babies”

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1023/B:JOHE.0000025326.89365.5c
But who cares eh? Blame it all on skin colour even though urbanisation was also a factor as was gun prevalence

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/j.1746-1561.2004.tb06624.x
Research paper after research paper showing prevalence of guns as a risk factor

https://injuryprevention.bmj.com/content/12/3/178.short
This one might impact as suicide is higher among the white population

research showing gun storage reduces gun death rates

https://www.pnas.org/content/117/26/14906

You don’t have to give up your guns but maybe just maybe start thinking about advocating safety

 

So - don’t do anything about the death rate because it is “only blacks”

someone explain to me how this dismissal of lives is NOT racist

 

"Sandy Hook families settle for $73M with gun maker Remington"

guess "hope and prayers" worked

 

What?!?!

Im talking about if you remove the black male populace from our total population rate which roughly equates to 6% of our total population... our violent crime rate decreases nearly 50%.

 

Sooooo Skin colour causes high gun death rate?