Seriously...What would it take for a GOD to prove itself?

That is the thing....I have no thoughts about forcing my belief system upon others.

You do.

AboveAlpha

 

What force are you alleging that I am using? is it the point of a gun? Arm twisting? Holding one of your family members hostage? What precisely is the alleged force that you seem to think that I am using?

 

I see your point, and "not necessarily" is my answer. They are just likely not doing what's best for humanity as much as AA is.
For example, AA (not to be confused with a 12-step program that asks for submission to some invisible friend) can easily, w/out hesitation, answer the question "is it more moral to throw Jews into ovens, or into a “lake of fire”?" He knows right from wrong. However, religious people struggle with that question as much as god struggles with "chariots of iron" (http://biblehub.com/judges/1-19.htm ), because of course to answer honestly would show that Jesus is less moral than even Hitler.

 

I, for one, don't think you are forcing your beliefs on anyone.....as long as you, for example, keep the crazy religious theory of "intelligent design" out of our schools! Hehe. Personally, I don't think one is forcing their beliefs on me if they knock on my door and want to "share the good news", as long as they let me politely say I'm too busy worshiping Satan to talk with them much at all.

GALILEO, however, now THAT cat got religion shoved in his face, all the way down his throat, basically! Jesus just sat there, while a person who spoke the truth, was threatened with torture by people who did not have the truth, and who claimed to represent HIM (Jesus)! Damn you, Jesus. I guarantee you that AA would have spoken up, had he been in Jesus' shoes, because he's driven by justice, not partisanship. When Stephen Hawking (pbuh) visited the Vatican he asked to see the apology letter to Galileo! That dude ROCKS!

 

You have a need to quell any form of thought that goes beyond the confines of your religious ideology.

You do not seek....you subdue.

AboveAlpha

 

That is presumptuous as you don't really know what others are doing. You only know what their comments are on this forum.

Perhaps. Then there is also the possibility that those others who refuse to answer that question recognize your tactics of twisting things that are said and make them appear to your advantage, when in fact they don't want to engage in that particular strategy for whatever reason.

Morality and honesty. Interesting topics.. Topics which have been discussed on many occasions on this forum (but without final resolution). What is "more moral"? What is "honest"? Is betrayal of your current belief system an honest approach when the opponent has not provided PROOF that your belief system is faulty? Is it more moral to use deceptive tactics to encourage a person to alter his/her current belief system? (tactics being defined in this scenario as statements which utilize "words of art" as the tool for such statement.)

 

Trust me, I don't, because it's just that you, like most people, have your whole life at least subconsciously just bought into our Christian-Judaeo society's belief that "gods/prophets" are miles above us lowly undeserving sinners. They. Are. Wrong! It's not your fault, it's society's fault.
They WANT you to believe that you are below Moses, Jesus, etc., so that they can control you, through guilt. If people realize they are better than Jesus then why would they give to the collection plate as much!? I see you for what you really are....they don't.

If I'm "flattering you too much" then it's because religions have got us to believe that we are scum. They. Are. Wrong! You're better than Moses/Mohammad/Jesus.....so get used to it!

 

My goodness... Galileo was such a Saint according to the standards set by Humanists and other non-theists. As for the letter of apology.... Perhaps it got lost in the shuffle or the copy mailed to Galileo was lost in transit. What do you suppose happened to the letter of apology to Jesus by the Roman government?

 

What I am aware of that the vast majority of Religious Individuals are not aware of is that these so called Prophets were violent, militaristic individuals that had to rally forces to their side to gain their objectives.

Now I really don't have issue with that as if a group of people were being enslaved and forced into servitude without representation then I would be right there planning war.

But such past stories were bloody....and violent in the extreme.

A GOD...had nothing to do with it.

AboveAlpha

 

You also do not seek understanding of religion,,,, especially Christianity. Tit for tat. It is the non-theists who insist that religious freedom does not extend to the street corners or to public displays of reverence.

 

Alright, alright, it's true. I'm sure your hero worship is a good thing. I just was wondering why it has to be shouted from the rooftops.

Anyway, that beats me. I was just in it to trick AA into showing me a broom closet.

 

You know, you aren't convincing anyone here that isn't already convinced. And, if you stop for a second, and look around, no one is trying to convince you otherwise. I've pointed out how needlessly confrontational you are, but besides me, you're confronting abstract ideas, shouting your contentions into the black abyss of the internet. No one here is shocked by what you say. No one much notices. So, I'll ask again. What are you trying to accomplish here? If you want to change minds, you're in the wrong place. If you want to rustle jimmies, no one cares, so mission failed. If you genuinely want to learn about other people's perspectives, then your intent is counter to everything you are saying.

Remember, regardless of what my beliefs are, I'm not telling you that you are wrong. I'm more of a curious bystander to your angry and repetitive assertions, just wondering what you're trying to accomplish. If you answer this with another rant about how dangerous Christianity is, I'll be moving along. I already know you think that, my question is what you are trying to do by stating it so provocatively in these threads, despite no progress with anyone who doesn't already think exactly like you. Perhaps that's it. Do you like to state these things here because there are plenty of people to agree with you, as Alpha has done?

 

Really?

Since I was once a Church going Christian my reality would seem to conflict with your statement.

AboveAlpha

 

If they can't even answer "is it more moral to throw Jews into ovens or into a "lake of fire"?" then they have a faulty belief system, most likely. It's a simple question. No nuance needed! If they have a good honest moral answer then it would be real hard to "twist" their answer, w/out looking stupid on my part. The problem is not my question, but rather Jesus' teachings. Followers of Jesus can't answer that moral question, but AA can.....so AA is more moral than Jesus....this is not rocket surgery.

 

And accepted the notion of betrayal of your then current belief system... there is no conflict with my statement.

 

Yes, now THAT we can all agree deserves an apology.

 

THEY don't realize that, however. For example, Moses, and his followers today, don't realize that killing 3000 innocent people like he did was immoral (not to mention killing all the innocent livestock and raping the women and enslaving the children.) You get it, they don't. I care for them, and want them to see the truth as you see it. Again, billions of people don't get that, but you do.

 

the problem exists in the lack of definition of the term 'moral'. or better... how you are using the term moral and whether or not that meaning you are using is in accord with the same meaning used by those others. What may be 'moral' from your perspective may not be 'moral' from the perspective of others. Thus the question... What is "moral"?

 

You seriously should consider being a political (or religious) commentator/writer. You'd be humorous like Ann Coulter, but not NEARLY as crazy.

 

Oh, that's nice of you to say. But, I'm sure I'd run out of material and not be funny, really quickly.

 

Valid question.
I like to test out my theories/arguments. Get feedback.
I've been wrong before, and people tell me when I am wrong....and when I'm right.
I get better at this the more I do it - which would not happen if I wasn't on forums, arguably.
I myself changed my entire belief system, so I believe others can to. Might take DECADES for them to change....but that's ok.
I need to VENT, as well, as when people can't even answer questions like "what hypothetically would your prophet/god have had to do for you to leave the religion, just say?".....they can't answer that, which tells me they are delusional. I have a problem with delusion!
Have a great night.

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I'm honestly more concerned/interested in the people who DON'T agree with me. Seriously.

 

A super-tough question, quite frankly. Would take an entire book to address. In one sentence, here's a quick and very dirty stab at it: moral is what's best for humanity.
I just stepped in it, I know, but at least that brief definition helps me to say that Jesus is immoral, when he accepted slavery, or said for people to hate their own families, or that he has not come to bring peace but a sword (Matthew 10:34.) Not best for humanity. Best for Jesus' ego maybe, but not best for humanity.

P.S. what's best for an imaginary friend is never necessarily what's best for humanity.

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Just like Sean Hannity and Chris Matthews.

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....you know.....uh...you're better than Jesus, so........

 

Uh oh, you're complementing me. That can't be good!

 

Have your heard the good news!? If I can only have an hour of your time....

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I'm not only a Jehovah's Witness, but I also sell insurance!


(I heard that on some show years ago: "things you don't want to hear stuck in an elevator", and can't forget it.....classic.)

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AboveAlpha pipes in "run for your life, wgabrie, it's a trap, Freedomseeker is crazy, trust me!"

 

Well yes you stepped in it. What is "best for humanity"? What you say is best, what I say is best or what someone else says is best? As for your PS, that is also irrelevant, as it is assuming an interest in what is "best" for an "imaginary friend" when the definition you provided was relevant to 'humanity' only.