Shellie Zimmerman ~ *Doubtful of his Innocence*

Lot's of people have raised children and a huge number of those people would disagree with you. But have you ever been in a physical one on one life or death struggle with no help available?

 

Ive Googled it. Ive searched the Sheriff's office website. I cannot find any references to Zimmermans specific training at the Sherriffs office as pertains to following or carrying a gun. Even so, Zimmerman has no obligation to follow any advice, any protocol or any law as to carrying his concealed gun in his complex and watching Martin.
You might possibly argue that Zimmerman had an obligation to follow the HOA watch guidelines(I wouldnt agree). There is nothing in those guidelines that prevents Zim from carrying his gun or following Martin.
Lastly, I would appreciate a source for Zimmerman's training at the Sheriffs office.

Thanks,

 

This will probably come as a shock to you but paramedics are not actually M.D.s and for that matter not all paramedics are equally experienced nor equally good at their job.

 

"Zimmerman explained where he first saw Martin"

Yes,l that was 1460 Retreat view Circle.

"and how he drove slowly to the community center,".

Yep, that is 111 Retreat View.

Yep, we are in agreement here. Zimmerman drove past Martin who standing in the yard at 1460 Retreat View Circle and proceeded to the club house 400' down the road. At this point Zimmerman is sitting in his truck at the clubhouse with Martin walking towards him. The clubhouse video camera confirms that someone pulled in head first about that time. Listen to the tape of Zims phone call;

911 dispatcher:
He’s near the clubhouse now?
Zimmerman:
Yeah, now he’s coming toward me. He’s got his hands in his waist band.

So, whats the confusion here? You know that Zimmerman drove past Martin and later stopped at the clubhouse. Martin walked toward Zimmerman and passed him as he sat in his truck, just like a I said.

Respectfully,

 

My goodness, you are now a fan of whats legal in regards to being in a public space as a citizen! How about George? George also had no obligation to retreat, of course it would have been tough to do since he was a tubby little guy wearing work boots as opposed to the '6-pack' stomached athlete wearing tennis shoes. Yes, the turtle doesn't have to retreat from the hare.

 

How about you find someone who has trained in MMA several times a week and outweighs you by 40 lbs and try it.

As for "stupid", I would include behavior such as violating forum rules and proving you have no valid arguments by resorting to ad hominem.

 

There is no evidence that Martin attempted to get away from Zimmerman. There is no evidence of where Martin was at any time other than being at 7-11 and where he wound up dead. Zimmerman is the absolute sole source of the movements of Martin.
Unless of course you use some of Zimmerman's statements and disregard others. You could also believe Rachel Jeantel,lol. Isnt she the one that now says she believes that it was Martin that started the fight?
My point is is that there is no evidence of Martin attempting to get away from Zimmerman. You could probably say that Martin didn't like Zimmerman having a perceived advantage over him. Martin running into the dark around the corner would remedy that. And Martin succeeded in that endeavor. He ran, he hid and punched Zimerman and was having a great time until the gun made its appearance.

Only in America are volunteers that work for free demonized for getting their butt kicked and their lives ruined.


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[TD] "I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself...

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[TD] to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the freedom I provide...

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[TD] and then questions the manner in which I provide it! "

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[TD="class: times"] Colonel Nathan R. Jessep[/TD]
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Not according to the medical examiner... Given your previous statements, I believe you'll accept Fox "News" as a source?
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/07/02/detective-returns-to-stand-in-zimmerman-trial/
A more detailed explanation is included here:
http://abcnews.go.com/US/trayvon-martin-case-doctor-sees-evidence-george-zimmerman/story?id=16055412

How does your cherry picking indicate me being out of my depth?
That being said, you may be right.... I'm not used to paddling in the kiddie pool, I prefer deeper waters.

 

Hmm.... I can just see Martin standing there by himself in the dark while Zimmerman being up to 100' away for a matter of minutes standing his ground, LOL. Comeon man. Martin sees Zimmerman walking and talking on the phone and Zimmerman walking in another direction and he feels compelled to make a stand? pfffttt. I suppose I could walk out my door right now and stand my ground against Justin Beiber who is another state.
He should have told his GF on the phone;

"Hey Rachel, Im tired of this dude, Im going to stand my ground the next time I see the guy.....................................2 minutes later....................HEY!!! Now I see him!"

 

Well it really is a little stupid to describe Zimmerman as some sort of 'trained fighter'he turned up to a gym took some lessons and was a complete failure. I think you know that. I think you and the rest of your lefty friends are being utterly dishonest. At one point you describe Zimmerman as a loser , an overweight, out of shape wannabe and then when it suits you you describe him as some sort of heavyweight boxer. The first description is by far the most accurate the second is the fantasy that he would like to be but could never embody.

If you don;t thing a tall, fit, agressive 17 year old can beat up an overweight shorrt fat man like Zimmerman then you are clearly deluded or (more likley) just trolling.

 

Could you please provide an example of a post in which I made any disparaging comments about Zimmerman's physique? Or are you just making hasty generalizations?

 

Zimmerman was also the guy that refuse dto go to the hospital with his broken nose.

Three paramedics thought his nose was broken(the fourth didn't treat Zimmerman).

The policeman thought his nose was broken per the police report.

Zimmermans doctor said it was broken after he looked at it in person.

It looks like its broken. Click to enlarge.




Same guy. And lastly, as someone in the medical field I can tell you that there are 10,000 people that bash their heads every day that do not result in lacerations. A laceration is not the definitive litmus test for blunt force on concrete. Ive seen people heads bounce off of concrete like a bowling ball and knock them unconscious, no bleeding at all. No cut.

Respectfully,

 

Not sure whether you failed to understand what I've said, or whether you are intentionally utilizing a straw man fallacy...
Martin did approach Zimmerman, in order to find out what the problem was - as evidenced by Zimmerman's testimony. Given that Zimmerman is the only person with a motive to lie, I'm not sure why you'd find this hard to believe.

Once Zimmerman chose not to identify himself or provide any reasonable explanation for following a teenager around the neighborhood at night, it was not unreasonable for Martin to see him as an imminent threat (rather than just a nuisance).
That encounter did not occur while they were "up to 100' away" from each other.

 

You give credence to ME Dr. Valerie Rao who is an acquaintance of Angela Corey who got her her job? Have you Googled that name? LOL, its pretty funny, Dr. Valerie Rao is the "Danny Bonaducie" of MEs.
Even so, she based her opinion on photos. As for me Ill take the word of his doctor, the three paramedics, the police and my own 30 years of dealing with blunt force trauma in the medical field.


Respectfully,

 

Seems to be logical to me using their logic.

 

So your using the age of majority definition not the one concerning physical or maturity?

So what is the point in calling a 6' 158lb 17 year old a child other than a play on emotions. A 17 year old can sign up for the military and be sent into war, does that mean we send children into war?

- - - Updated - - -

And someone 17 as was Martin can be charged as an adult under the law can't they.

 

How about the concept that legally he can be considered an adult and be charged as an adult if he commits an act of violence.

Legal he was a minor or a child under the law, physically he was not a child, and had he not been killed would very likely have been treated as an adult.

 

I, like most people have used Straw Mans before. What sets me apart from many is that they arent intentional. Let me assure you, I may be wrong but I am not dishonest.

There is no proof or testimony that Martin approached Zimmerman, unless of course you believe Zimmerman. Since when is Zimmermans testimony a substitute for facts? I thought he was a liar?
Levity aside, if Zimmerman's account is true then he wouldn't have any motive to lie. Its only a lie if he's lying.

There is no proof or testimony that Zimmerman chose not to identify himself or anything else. If I jumped out of your closet right now and punched you in the head what would you say in the 3 seconds that it took me to get from the closet to your chair?

"Hello sir, it appears that you are here illegally. And I must say that I am quite embarrassed as to my attire and I thus wished that I had chosen Fruit of the Looms in lieu of these clown shoes and pink afro!"

LOL, my gosh man. Some dude pops out at Zimmerman and you marvel that he didnt offer the most logical response as to aleviate Martins emenant punch to the face? I cant belive that Zimmerman got out anything more legivle than....bluhh,,,blahh...ugh....(insert punch).

No, you said that Martin had a right to SYG for the entire duration of the event, which would include him standing in the dark...alone.....waiting for Zimmerman to do a U turn at the cross street and come back.

Respectfully,

 

As is calling Zimmerman a murderer and wishing harm upon him. As is marginalizing Martin's actions the resulted in his death and holding Zimmerman responsible for them.

 

First there is not a shred of evidence he ever feared imminent harm or had reason to, second he ran off and lost Zimmerman, the incident was over. He choose to go back and confront Zimmerman, you lose any stand your ground if you flea and then return and assault someone.

 

IMMINENT being the key word which you now omit. Zimmerman never presented an imminent threat to Martin and it has to be of imminent death or imminent serious injury not just frightened because someone was watching you.

 

No you ignored the evidence which shows Martin confronted Zimmerman after having run off losing him. That evidence was presented by the girl friend, a prosecution witness who also testified to his derogatory and hateful remarks about Zimmerman indicating had had a beef with Zimmerman because he had watched him walk down the street. He was mad about it and went back to confront Zimmerman, ended up assaulting him and threatening him with serious bodily harm. It cost him his life.

THAT is what was presented at trial, it is the only narrative supported by the evidence.

 

*sigh*

After having been followed around the neighborhood by a total stranger at night, he approached that stranger and asked what the problem was. This is not an unreasonable act given that he had no legal obligation to retreat.

The stranger had no intelligible response/justification and didn't bother to identify himself, and THAT is the point at which any reasonable person in a similar situation could assume that the stranger was a threat to their safety.

Saying that "you lose any stand your ground if you flea and then return and assault someone" (even if you meant "flee" rather than "flea") sounds reasonable. Of course, Martin did not rush back to him and immediately assault Zimmerman. He only assaulted him after Zimmerman failed to provide any reasonable justification for stalking a teenager around the neighborhood at night.

I could just as easily say that you lose any self defense if you provoke someone into a fight.

 

Not under Florida law.