SInce edcation is horrible in the US is a college degree even help?

Loans that can't be discharged by bankruptcy raise the stakes in a major way.

It means that if for some reason the student doesn't graduate and get a pretty darn good job, they will be sadddled with huge debt and no degree.

Also, standard studdent loans don't actuallly cover the costs of a university degree. There are categories of costs that aren't included. One might make it work if the school is in the town where parents live.

 

No, you really really don't. "Smart" has nothing to do with it. ANYONE (of sound mind and body) can become a doctor or dentist. It is hard work and nothing more.

 

Mine, on the other hand, is an old Army dentist and a spares not a split second for niceties. We call him The Butcher. But dang he's cheap!

 

That may be true, but I would submit it very much depends upon location and demographics. I live in an area where Arts & Humanities are chosen by far more than 6%. It's probably closer to 30%. That's a factor of two things. 1 - money (the more money your folks have, the less you need to think about working for a living), and 2 - white Progressive parents.

 

That's how it works in this country. Kids rarely leave their own city/town to study. All of our capital cities have multiple universities, so kids just pick the one they want and commute. Even our larger rural towns have universities, so there aren't many kids who have no options ... probably less than the percentage who don't go to university at all (about 60% don't, across the nation). We don't even have accommodation in most of our universities .. and if there is, it's very limited and absolutely out of the question cost wise for any but the richest parents.

 

Well my take on this is figure out what you want from education and what students really need to learn, if we decide as a society vocational education should be important as important as going to college then have those skills taught in High School when its virtually free to families and no debt is risked for education and do your best to focus most classes on that. Then have academic High Schools for those going to college. We used to do this my father and mother went to Technical High Schools and both got good jobs right out of school. In fact their county had also an Agricultural High School for those working in that industry also so had three options.

As for loans for school since they are government backed the government should approve all majors of study, tuition increases and fees at schools taking the money and limit the use of the money to housing the government approves, tuition, fees, books, food, one computer lower cost and software for security and classes approved by the government and a certain amount for transportation enough for a decent used car if there is no mass transit and if there is the latter a monthly metro pass. No money available to party with or hand out as loans or trips even if semester abroad for credits just the basics. Its government secured money the government has a say in how its used and what you study don't like it don't ask for taxpayer backed loans. Trade schools would be the same.

 

Well yeah, you factor in that most millionaires and billionaires have at least a 4 year degree that jacks up the average. That isn't supporting the position that you will likely make more money if you have a bachelor's degree.

 

https://www.bls.gov/careeroutlook/2018/data-on-display/education-pays.htm
The above is for age 25 years and older.

Average salary of somebody with a bachelor's degree: $1173 a week.
Average salary of somebody with a high school diploma: $712 a week.

This isn't rocket science, nor is it something new.

 

Well yes but that's an average you're not going to make that kind of money just because you have a bachelor's degree other people that have bachelor's degrees can make millions and because their income is so high it jacks up the average.

Well yeah I understand averages. And because group "A" includes just about every millionaire thus raising the average.

It may not be rocket science but you don't seem to grasp how averages work.

 

Vocational education need to be on a continuing basis.

Those workers who got caught by the collapse in Pennsylvania and other places needed to have vocational education available to figure out there next career. And, they needed to have been doing that before their jobs went away.

 

Most folks look down on educators. So I wouldn't put too much stock in what they think.

 

Not where I live. We respect educators. We regard it as a thankless and altruistic kind of career choice, and appreciate teachers for what they do for our children.

 

If they do so much then there should be no issue. I guess everything is ok with the education system.

 

Most people don't look down on educators. We look down on people without college degrees and who denigrate educators.

 

I earned more than that in the 1990's and I have no college degree or high school diploma..

 

It's called an average. Bill Gates doesn't have a bachelor's degree and makes much more.

 

Just depends how much you want to make and how much time you are willing to sacrifice to the hideous bitch goddess..I've been self employed 35 years..

 

Everything IS okay with public education. It's an incredible resource, and that's it's free for all is even more incredible. We are lucky to have it. VERY. We can take our kids from ignorance and deep poverty to educated and financially successful just by taking good advantage of this incredible resource (and the marvelous teachers who want to help us get there).

 

And/or parents who don't support their kids' education, expecting (but not really caring that it won't happen) teachers to do it for them.

 

Good point.

 

Child abuse take them away from the parents for a time or order them by court order to partake in the education considering issues to do so, seriously, in the army my father had to issue orders to go do this or else and civilians can't do the same?

 

I would like to see parents charged via heavy fines for each child who doesn't complete school and complete it to a reasonable level of competency (with a graduation mark of at least 60/100, for example). And also charged for each crime committed by their children up until those children are 21 years of age. Any babies born to their unemployed single kids (under age 21) will also be the parents' financial responsibility entirely. Child support, basically.

Since all of those things are incredibly easy to achieve/avoid, it's not as though it would be an issue. If it IS an issue for you, you need to never have children. Which is kind of the point of the exercise.

 

really? and you would know that how????

I've two that have four your degrees in art, between the them they make about $200K at 27yrs old...would they have even got an interview without a degree, nope...

all the arrogant comments coming from people denigrating art degrees are ironically themselves elitist snobs who have no clue what it takes to get achieve an art degree or it's requirements

 

I'll take back my statement. An art degree is useful in several careers. If you plan to be an art appraiser if you plan to be an art teacher or instructor, or if you plan on working in an art museum. Perhaps as an art expert in other fields.

Now if you want to do those jobs by all means get an art degree. If you want to be an artist... I've seen an elephant being an artist. If an elephant can do it without college than a person can do it without college.

I don't care in the least what it takes to get an art degree. And I wasn't denigrating it. I just said that nobody needs it which some people do and I'll level with you on that.

I'm working on a degree in martials inspection and I'm a moving to materials engineering. I'm willing to bet you don't know what it takes to get that or it's requirements. But I'm not offended most people I talk to you I have to explain it to them if they're interested. and I wouldn't think you were a snob for saying most people don't need that because most people don't.

 

Perhaps not, but I'm willing to bet there are more jobs for materials engineers than there are fine arts graduates.