State Laws

Discussion in 'Abortion' started by Pixie, Apr 23, 2022.

  1. Pixie

    Pixie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2021
    Messages:
    7,224
    Likes Received:
    2,408
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    Are there any states in the US in which the male in a sexual relationship, however short, is made by law to support the child he fathered, for 18 years (adulthood)?
     
    Bowerbird likes this.
  2. MJ Davies

    MJ Davies Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2020
    Messages:
    21,120
    Likes Received:
    20,249
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Yes.
     
    Bowerbird likes this.
  3. Pixie

    Pixie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2021
    Messages:
    7,224
    Likes Received:
    2,408
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    Which ones?
    And is it successful?
    Has it reduced unwanted pregnancies?
     
    Bowerbird likes this.
  4. MJ Davies

    MJ Davies Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2020
    Messages:
    21,120
    Likes Received:
    20,249
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Pixie, can you connect the dots between your OP and these questions please?
     
  5. Yulee

    Yulee Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2016
    Messages:
    10,341
    Likes Received:
    6,383
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Almost all

    no it’s hit or miss.

    No. It’s not a deterrent
     
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2022
    Bowerbird likes this.
  6. Moonglow

    Moonglow Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2013
    Messages:
    20,754
    Likes Received:
    8,047
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Are you talking about a guy that is less than five foot five? The mother of the child puts the hooks in the guy when the name is put on the birth cert then the court can go after him.
     
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2022
    Bowerbird likes this.
  7. Pixie

    Pixie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2021
    Messages:
    7,224
    Likes Received:
    2,408
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    I asked if any states hold the male part of the pregnancy as his part in the maintenance of the child to the legal age of adulthood.
    Someone replies yes.
    So I asked which states and if in those states the incidence of unwanted pregnancies was lower.
     
    Bowerbird likes this.
  8. Pixie

    Pixie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2021
    Messages:
    7,224
    Likes Received:
    2,408
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    Not without DNA evidence.
    Sorry but your "game" is not viable anymore. We know where you live.
     
  9. Pixie

    Pixie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2021
    Messages:
    7,224
    Likes Received:
    2,408
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    Why does the law allow mem to go free and then raise all these legislative reasons why a women can't "reject" the child too?
    Surely he is MORALLY as responsible for creating that child as she is, and often more insistent. Yet he is not held to the same account.
    How does that not exemplify hypocrisy?
     
    Bowerbird likes this.
  10. Yulee

    Yulee Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2016
    Messages:
    10,341
    Likes Received:
    6,383
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Your shocked some men are crap and break the law?
     
  11. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2017
    Messages:
    28,004
    Likes Received:
    21,306
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    you mean child support? I think every state has child support laws.
     
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2022
  12. Pixie

    Pixie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2021
    Messages:
    7,224
    Likes Received:
    2,408
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    I am disappointed that some then go on to wag fingers at the women they leave behind.
     
  13. Pixie

    Pixie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2021
    Messages:
    7,224
    Likes Received:
    2,408
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    I mean child support for children born outside a committed relationship.
     
  14. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2017
    Messages:
    28,004
    Likes Received:
    21,306
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Ya, thats just called child support. If a woman can prove a man is the biological father of a child she has custody of, she can have the state force him to pay her a percentage of his income to support the child, regardless whether they were married, lived together, or just dated or had a one night stand. Details vary from state to state, but iiuc, every state has a version if this.

    Some men will avoid officially having a job (by 'working under the table' or even becoming homeless) so that their wages cannot be garnished to pay to support a child they might not have even known they had prior to a court-ordered DNA test.

    It also can work in the reverse, in theory, where a father with custody can force a mother to pay child support. For obvious reasons this is rare.
     
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2022
  15. DEFinning

    DEFinning Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2020
    Messages:
    15,971
    Likes Received:
    7,607
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    In the case of a man, you are talking about financial responsibility (with regard to the law). With a woman, you are referring, I assume, to laws restricting abortion. These are two very different things, as the sexes play very different roles, in the producing of a baby. So you are trying make a comparison, where it is impossible to do so.

    This should not be mistaken for my advocacy for fathers being let off the hook; they should be held responsible, as I believe they legally can be-- though being awarded a judgement, and collecting on it, are not identical things, either. I just cannot agree with the logic behind what seems to be your direction: that if men can't be forced to pay child support, then women should be allowed to have abortions at any stage of pregnancy. By that rationale, if the dad is not paying, why shouldn't a woman be allowed to "abort" her two year old, or her five year old?

    The reason, of course, is that our society values human life. While most do not recognize a zygote, embryo, or early- stage fetus as yet being a human being, nor do most maintain that there is a sudden transformation that occurs, at the moment of egress
    from the birth canal. The process more resembles a metamorphosis, as from a caterpillar to moth. Just as, in that case, one might identify some point when what is in the chrysalis is more moth, than caterpillar, abortion laws strive to determine when a fetus is more akin to the rest of us, than not (thereby superceding the woman's own right, of bodily autonomy). So the anti-abortion restrictions are aimed at protecting the life of the gestating person- to- be. There can be no legal equivalent to that, with respect to men.
     
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2022
  16. Polydectes

    Polydectes Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2010
    Messages:
    53,701
    Likes Received:
    18,240
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Anywhere there are family courts that order such a thing I'd bet all Fifty states do that.

    What does successful mean?
     
  17. Polydectes

    Polydectes Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2010
    Messages:
    53,701
    Likes Received:
    18,240
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    well yeah that's the correct answer.
    The answer is all 50 states, and I'm not sure statistics exist for what you're asking.
     
  18. Moonglow

    Moonglow Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2013
    Messages:
    20,754
    Likes Received:
    8,047
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    You should what with the trail of DNA that rivals the spreading of seed by Johnny Appleseed.
     
  19. MJ Davies

    MJ Davies Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2020
    Messages:
    21,120
    Likes Received:
    20,249
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Pixie, I'm literate. ;-) I read your OP and your follow-up questions.

    I'm asking you to connect the dots between a man being required to provide support for a minor child until the age of majority (usually 18 in the US) and unwanted pregnancy rates.

    Your question, as written, assumes there is a direct correlation between the two and I don't see how or why that is.
     
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2022
  20. Pixie

    Pixie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2021
    Messages:
    7,224
    Likes Received:
    2,408
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    I asked IF there is a correlation.
    I assumed nothing.
     
  21. MJ Davies

    MJ Davies Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2020
    Messages:
    21,120
    Likes Received:
    20,249
    Trophy Points:
    113
    OK. My apologies.

    Maybe start here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_support_in_the_United_States

    In IL (where I am),

    How Living Together Affects Child Support Payments
    https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/free-books/living-together-book/chapter8-5.html

    Child Support and Remarriage in Illinois
    https://www.divorcenet.com/states/illinois/ilart_10

    Can I Be Required to Pay Child Support if the Child Isn’t Mine?
    https://www.hg.org/legal-articles/c...y-child-support-if-the-child-isn-t-mine-46953


    There have been cases in which men have contested paying child support because they claim they were sexually assaulted or the woman lied to them about being on birth control and/or sterile.

    It gets trickier when the woman is legally married but they are separated, pending divorce, and she becomes pregnant by a different man. It varies state-to-state but the husband can be held responsible for providing for that child because he/she would be born before he and his wife are legally divorced.

    I don't know what impact the various state laws on unwanted pregnancies. I would hazard a guess that it's not much at all because it's too easy to walk away from a pregnant woman and hold cash only jobs while the rest of us foot those responsibilities.
     
  22. Pixie

    Pixie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2021
    Messages:
    7,224
    Likes Received:
    2,408
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    This is generally the case in Europe too.
    But with DNA evidence it is harder for "him" to avoid his responsibilities.
     
  23. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    May 15, 2017
    Messages:
    34,783
    Likes Received:
    11,297
    Trophy Points:
    113
    This is the case in almost all states, maybe all of them.

    The exception is if the woman chooses to put the baby up for adoption then the biological father does not have to pay.

    We've discussed the unfairness of the woman being the one to hold this choice before, in several discussions in the Abortion forum.

    Many times men put their girlfriends under pressure to have abortions because they do not want to be on the hook for paying child support. Once born, oftentimes women immediately bond with their baby and cannot bare to put the baby up for adoption.
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2022
  24. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2013
    Messages:
    60,132
    Likes Received:
    16,504
    Trophy Points:
    113
    That's not the purpose.

    The purpose is that the two people responsible for the baby equally support that baby.
     
  25. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2014
    Messages:
    56,891
    Likes Received:
    21,025
    Trophy Points:
    113

    BULL ! The father also can decide if the kid is given up for adoption...if he doesn't want it given up for adoption he can just take custody of it.
    ,It's his kid.


    YOU have gone off topic....it's not about adoption...
     

Share This Page