Surrender & Self-Loathing: The Ground Zero Mosque Reality Check

HEADLINE: Summer 1974

The World Will Run Out Of Oil By 1999.

 

you can disagree. but you'd be wrong. The diverse people of NYC are not the ones who are threatening violence. Ironically, the people threatening violence are the ones living in homogeneous small towns, which are not being threatened by diversity. No one is threatening to build mosques in their small towns. So instead, they're using NYC as a proxy for their hatred of diversity even though NYC thrives on diversity. These people need to mind their own business, and let us new yorkers decide where we want to build our mosques. If you don't live in NYC, this is none of your business. Why you choose to make it your business says more about your own personal psychology and ideology, than anything else. Keep your small town values in your small towns. NYC doesn't want them.

 

Hi Kimaris, I did not even know there are problems with Mosques in NY, but some fear is understandable. There is a war going on, would you expect everybody to believe the same way? Besides 52% of Democrats are against it, so you would seem to be wrong. Do you have figures of the people protesting the other Mosques? I dont think Democrats are Rightest fear mongers...LOL

 

and these conservative whites have blown up how many people?

 

what threats?

 

as an extension of US foreign policy? millions.

 

ask saxon. he seems to believe that there are a bunch of people threatening civil war.

 

after Saddam invaded kuwait or after the arabs attacked isreal?

 

I'm asking you.....

 

I drifted WAAAAAYYYY off topic when I posted earlier about revolution/civil war...back ON topic now.
I agree completely with your post. I didn't know people in these small towns were threatening to violently invade new york or threatening violence against new yorkers. That's just crazy.

You know where the Bear Bar is? Down the street from the Beacon theater?

Remember Mannys Car Wash (bar)..or Tramps? They're both closed now.

I've had many good times in Manhattan thru the years.

 

the USG supported the fundamentalist saudi govt long before sadaam invaded. Incidentally, the USG also put sadaam into power. Incidentally, the US also provides Israel with arms. Meanwhile, hamaas receives a lot of its funding from the American-backed saudis. The US has its hand in everything that goes on in the Islamic world. You can't blame Islam for this, when it is the US that has its hand in everything.

 

waitaminute..I never said anything of the sort.
Who is threatening civil war?..Where did you see that?
I pointed out conditions that were similar to what's happening in america now in OTHER civil wars.
I'm disappointed, now. I thought you read what I wrote.

 

now you're backtracking.

1. you said there are angry people
2. you said civil war was likely

now you're trying to say that these angry people aren't the ones who will start the civil war? c'mon now.

It's pretty simple. There are angry people. These angry people will either start a civil war or they won't. If they start a civil war, then they are the cause of the civil war. If they don't start a civil war, then it's not a problem. So on either account, you're wrong.

 

Tell that to Daniel Pearl.

 

i would, but his head is dis-articulated from his body.

 

Ok. you're playing "gotcha". I see what's up now.
I should have known better.

Every nation in the history of the world..Every empire in the history of the world...have been overthrown...

When those events occur there are angry people involved.
This one will be, too, one day.
What I posted was showing parallels.


After all I wrote and we discussed... that's ALL you could absorb out of it? Your comprehension skills are....never mind..whatever...

You seem to have a need to be "right" and contradict people in order to validate yourself.

ok..you're "right"...whatever.

 

Wrong pal!

The minute those planes dropped into those buildings it was not just an attack against New Yorkers!

It was an attack against ALL of us. The minute those buildings fell and all those people died, it became a national icon. It became part of all of us. We all feel pain from it from Nebraska Cornfields to Cotton fields in Georgia.

The Ground Zero site is now a part of ALL of us and belongs to the entire nation.. not just NY, and the entire nation has a say in what goes on there and what will or won't be.

Ground Zero site is like a national monument or battlefield and therefore belongs to all of us now.

 

hmmmm..Excellent points, mate.

Very well said.

 

i think you're missing the main problem here. The problem is that you're blaming the things that the angry people are angry about. I'm blaming the angry people for giving in to irrational anger. That's the fundamental disagreement.

 

Wasn't Daniel Pearl a bleeding-heart liberal jewish American who travelled to Pakistan to do a story on the Islamist movement? This guy should be nominated for a Darwin Award; the only way he could have made himself more of a target would have been to hand out little Israeli flags.

 

The only time that right wingers love History Lessons is when they show someone else or some other country in a negative light, but when it shows the evil History Lessons of this country they want to change that lesson from History to His-Story.

Amazing how that works.

 

You should include an audio-file of the Battle Hymn Of The Republic being played on the harmonica, perhaps with Glenn Beck accompanying on "rhythmic sobs"?

 

that's not quite right. when you live in a small town, you're not really at risk of dying in a terrorist attack. if you live in NYC, you are. And that changes everything. When the planes hit the towers, I was a few blocks away--and I saw the second plane hit, in real time--fireball and all. My favorite bookstore no longer exists, because the building collapsed. I had to stay at relatives' for 2 weeks before I was allowed back into my apartment, which was just a few blocks from ground zero.

So when you say that your claim to 9/11 is the same as mine, that's not quite right. A Nebraskan living on a corn field who witnessed 9/11 on a television screen does not have the same claim to 9/11 as new yorkers do. For the rest of the country, this whole thing is just a political game. For many New Yorkers, this whole thing is very personal. New Yorkers have far more at stake. And so I'm more than somewhat resentful that outsiders think they have the right to dictate where New Yorkers choose to build their mosques. We New Yorkers have the right to build mosques wherever we want. We don't need some guy from nebraska telling us what to do with our mosques. We don't goto Nebraska and tell you where to build your cornfields, do we?

 

What about someone from D.C., or Maryland, or Jersey. Someone who has a bigger claim than Nebraska. Its not the same, but knowing that just a couple miles from my house 3000 people died? In Pennsylvania 40 people of that 3000 died. In Virginia, similar. The

 

Right, wrong or in between. Every nation..every empire that has ever existed has been conquered or overthrown.
Angry people were involved...and as my examples show no multicultural empire or nation has survived..It's a historical fact...Deny it if you want..it won't change the truth...It's human nature.

Now in utopia or some idealistic fantasyland maybe everything is cool..but economy, racial/cultural differences all come into play in the real world.

It's highly short sighted, even myopic to pretend that they don't..yes, economy plays a role...yes, it was too hot one day..yes, some people didn't like the leader....all kinds of reasons can be pointed out and we can go on and on and on...

Your premise is that at the heart of every revolution or civil war the people were irrational..
That's quite a broad brush you're painting with.
The American revolution..The colonists were irrational?..
The french revolution, the citizens were irrational?..etc..etc...

Read some history of the countries I mentioned in my OP and see WHY they revolted resorted to civil war.
Some of the governments killed/imprisoned millions of their own people Pol Pot..The Czars in Russia...the french..all of them
I listed several historical ones in the OP....Russia, Bosnia, Yugoslavia....These aren't theories made up in some parlor among gentlemen..
These really occurred and no amount of revisionist history can change it.
Some governments are/become so oppressive/corrupt/intolerable that they have to go.

..and every citizen in every one of those countries at one time or another didn't believe it could happen to THEM because THEY are SOOOO advanced and tolerant and "modern" and cultured and refined...blah blah..etc......nevertheless...

This country was born in blood and fire and will die the same way.
Just like EVERY other country in the history of the world.