The Confederate battle flag

Why don't you ask those that fly it why they fly it instead of assigning your own belief system and making assumptions?

Of course you do. You have not displayed any willingness to talk to those that fly the flag. Instead preferring to make assumptions about them.

 

"Stood" ...past tense. Thanks for admitting that is not what it stands for today.

 

I've already said that most who fly it don't do so for racist reasons. Chop chop, catch up. This isn't a complex thread.

Another fable. I've talked to them many times, including those in my family. But the fact remains that you are either flying it for historical reasons (thus supporting slavery) or you are ignoring history. History won't stop being a fact just because it triggers some snowflakes.

 

You are speaking from ignorance. Speak to those that fly it. See what they say instead of assigning them something you have no idea if its true or not. Stop projecting your own beliefs onto them.

 

"Stood" is past tense because the Confederacy is past tense.

It can't stand for anything today unless it 1) Stands for the Confederacy or 2) Stands for historical revisionism. Those are your only options.

You've spent several posts arguing for historical revisionism, yet you are offended by being called out for historical revisionism.

 

Agreed, and I touched on this in another post. This ambiguity is problematic. State sponsored symbolism should never be ambiguous in this manner, and the corporate world is reacting as well.

You can use the Confederate flag as a logo for your business if you want, for reasons other than racism. Just don't be surprised when blacks take their business elsewhere.

Myself, I agree with Carlin; "Symbols are for the symbol-minded," but I understand the power that symbols have with others.

 

I have spoken to those who fly it. I'm related to several.

I'll try typing slower: a flag of the CONFEDERACY either represents THE HISTORICAL CONFEDERACY or A REIMAGINING OF THE CONFEDERACY. If it stand for neither THEN IT IS IN NO WAY RELATED TO THE CONFEDERACY IN ANY MANNER.

You follow now? Did the caps help?

 

Yeah, you just call them ignorant.

Some how I doubt that very seriously. I HAVE talked to those that fly it. I also know why I like the flag knowing full well the history. And it has nothing to do with slavery, or racism.

 

Who are you calling a "troll"? And you are not half the expert on Confederate history you attempt to present.

 

No, I said they were either supporting slavery, they were historically ignorant, or they were historical revisionists. That remains true.

Then you are preaching historical revisionism. If you knew the history, you would know that it is a lie to say that "it has nothing to do with slavery, or racism."

 

Speech that threatens imminent lawless action should be criminally prosecuted. Most other restrictions I do not agree with.

As an Australian living where it is illegal to utter speech that is reasonably likely to insult or humiliate on the basis of protected class status, I am convinced that this standard is the single greatest achievement of the United States.

Personally I am extremely thick skinned - you can say almost whatever you want to me and the worst I'll do is laugh at you or walk away. I can understand why others aren't, and they are free to take whatever legal avenues they have, escalating it to corporate is a valid response that I back completely.

I disagree. I think statues serve as a reminder of the heights and depths of humanity. I do not support the removal of Soviet statues in Eastern Europe despite the absolute genocide committed by Stalin and Lenin.

People may disagree with me on this, and they're free to vote against my view in an election; that's what's supposed to happen in a liberal society, but I'm not going to advocate for the removal of statues in my hometown, or anywhere else no matter how offended or bothered by them others are. That's the whole point.

The mass hysteria of statue topplings is a real problem. I almost shed a tear watching the video of Churchill's statue being replaced, crusty old veterans with walkers saying they'll die to protect it. Taking offense is no excuse for criminal damage.

It's all a symptom of the complete breakdown in trust in the humanity of our common man.

 

I've cited more historical Confederate sources than anyone else on the forums, and none of those defending the Confederacy against these charges have been able to present historical sources from the Confederacy in their favor.

Translation: I'm able to quote the Confederacy saying that I'm right and they are incapable of quoting the Confederacy saying I'm wrong. Get it now?

 

You forgot to answer my question, who are you calling a troll?

 

Anyone claiming to have read Confederate sources from the time period while also claiming that slavery was not their primary motivation for secession and the formation of a new country.

 

We will see what the mods think.

 

I'll take that as an acknowledgement that you aren't able to present a historical case or address the numerous historical references defending my case. Cool beans.

 

Oh this is a Golem "one up".. I'm undecided as to "if" I'm gonna buy this or not, seems WAY to convenient plus the Intraweb stigma

 

Try debating without petty insults and misrepresentations.

 

@FatBack

The Declarations of Causes say it was about slavery
The Cornerstone Speech from the VP of the CSA says it was about slavery
The Crittenden Compromise says it was about slavery
The CSA Constitution primarily focused on slavery
The letters of the secession commissioners primarily focused on slavery
The man who designed the CSA flag said it was a symbol of white supremacy and slavery

Every primary historical source we have places the onus on slavery. I'm sorry if history is inconvenient for your politics, but it won't stop being history just because you wish it weren't so.

 

I've tried facts. You avoided them and called them "misrepresentations." When I point out that you are avoiding the facts, you call that an "insult." What would it take for you to address the facts?

 

You think that all black people think alike? Unless you can back that up with evidence, that all black people think that the Confederate flag means slavery, then what you just said is a textbook example of a racist statement.

 

So name calling is the next page in your book LMFAO

 

No, straight calling another poster "troll" is an insult. Anyone who does not know how long and how many terms a President was to serve in the CSA is no authority on the topic. There were more issues than slavery that caused the country to split.

 

There was no "name calling" in what you just quoted. Read again. Though I find it funny that the last time we had this conversation you said it was about slavery . . . Why won't you say the same thing now?

 

I specified what I meant by troll. Meanwhile, your straw man about the term limits has already been disproven. When it comes to "the split" the Confederate States openly admitted that slavery was the primary cause, a historical fact you have yet to address