The death of eternal truths and the new Paganism

"Right wing distopia"? Is that why all those immigrants were coming to America in the late 1800s? lol

 

LOL I love that.

The US did have things going for it; no famine (like Ireland), religious freedom (unless you’re Mormon), a lot of land to claim (unlike Europe), a hunger for business and it was advertised in the media as the promised land.

What was under discussion was the right wishing for small government, which was the 19th century. No FDA, EPA, OSHA, FTC etc. No Social Security, Medicare or social safety net. So the majority of the elderly lived in poverty and died early, children died early from disease and malnutrition. Business was unregulated with robber barons, companies price fixing, monopolies, companies openly polluting, no drug standards, child labor, no compensation for on the job injuries, no safety standards, no mandatory schooling….the list is quite long and all wishful thinking by the far right? A right-wing dystopia.

 

In the late 1800s America was the best country in the world and probably still is. A bit unfare to call it a dystopia given the number of people that wanted to come here. My grandparents were born in the 19th century. Mid 1870s. They did not live in poverty or die early. They really had little to do with the government and were self sufficent. Pretty healthy too. From a good diet and of course working hard. Sure big government does some things that help most of us. Big government is also the antithesis of freedom, as is modern day liberalism. Freedom does more to improve lives than big government. So given a choice most of us will forgo a left wing communist dystopia and maintain a country based on a Constitution written by people the left calls old white men. As a final statement, I am only having this discussion in the Religion section of PF forum because to the left, big Government is religion.

 

One anecdote is not a counterargument for the above.
What freedoms do you not enjoy because of "big government"?
You have a unique definition of religion. I could say Libertarianism is a religion then.

 

It's just words.

 

Wll I can provide my personal knowledge which is an anecdote or we can go off on a huge tangent discussing US history. Either way it seems pretty obvious that large numbers of people were coming to the US in the late 19th century because the US was a far better place than where they were coming from. So I have to ask. At this time period what country do you think illustrated an example of a big government success story?

The freedoms I have come from the US Constitution. The US Constitution created a Republic with check and balances and was not intended to create an all powerful big central government. You seem to assert that the greater the dependency (on the government) the greater the freedom. How Orwellian.

Libertarianism is clearly not a religion as demonstrated by the fact that It does not seek to eradicate religions or compete with them.. On the other hand Marxism wants to eradicate religion because it competes with the religion of Marxism.

A libertarian is a free thinker with intact logic and critical thinking. You left wingers march in lockstep spewing dogma in a manner similar to fundamental and extreme religions. Your virtue signaling, dogma (e.g., CRT), newspeak, political demigods, subordination of science to politics (e.g., the left's definition of a woman) has all the characteristics of religion. A good case study demonstrating these points is the Cultural Revolution in China. Mao was the left's Jesus and the little red book was their Bible. Why do you suppose the commies in China are now so intent upon wiping out the harmless movement of Falun Gong? The answer is because communism is a religion that will tolerate no competition with other religions. And here is a quote from Carl Marx himself demonstrating what I have said.

"we have once and for all declared war on religion and religious ideas."

You can rebrand communism as progressive liberalism, wokism, or what ever. The goal is still an all powerful collective which you (honestly at least) call big government presented by you as the savior for all problems.

 

Speaking of going off on tangents, before your glorious arrival, the subject was, what would you cut from government and EVERYTHING was the response. That lead to my response to him that he must be wanting to go back to the 19th century. It was probably a swell place compared to other countries back then, but we’ve made a bit of progress, which I illustrated.

Your main point was FREEDOM and how big government is in the way of your FREEDOM. You skipped telling me how.

I believe most libertarians suffer from collective narcissism which accounts for the anger, name calling, aggressive defense of ideals. They also tend to overestimate their logic and critical thinking skills (Mao is the left’s Jesus?)(progressive liberalism is communism?), more hyperbole than logic. Communism is not liberalism anymore than a theocracy is conservatism. One is a system of government, the other is an individual philosophical attitude and they can be miles apart.

 

Even after a lot of work went into the explanation you cannot seem to grasp that communism is a religion and likewise progressive liberalism is a religion. Let me say it again. Your progressive liberal virtue signaling, dogma (e.g., CRT), newspeak, political demigods, subordination of science to politics (e.g., the left's unscientific definition of a woman), and the attack on culture have all the characteristics of religion. Religions attack the science of biology, so did Joseph Stalin, and so do modern progressive liberals. You people just elected a SCOTUS Justice who cannot define what a woman is. If that is not denying the science of biology what is. So what we have with liberals is a modern day version of Lysenkoism.

You you can toss around some academic sounding terms such as collective narcissism but as we both know ad hominem attacks are a logical fallacy. How people not wanting to be part of a forced collective are tagged as collective narcissists, escapes me. But thanks for the conversation. I give you credit with being willing to defend your position unlike the many left wing Fifty Cent Army people that just post a line or two of an opinion or soundbite to get their fifty cents. I am actually here to engage in debate with people in a meaningful way.

 

I didn’t address your defining progressivism/liberalism as a religion because I thought it was kinda dumb and I didn’t want to waste my time, but you insist…..I can do the same with the right.

Your right-wing virtue signaling (family values), dogma (big government bad), newspeak (CRT, brie-eaters, elite), political demigods (Trump), subordination of science to politics (climate change denial, anti-vaxx), and the attack on current culture have all the characteristics of religion. Amen.

You seem particularly upset about trans people. If someone tells you they are a trans woman are you going to argue with them and say no you’re a man. Why not say okay instead of being rude. No one is denying science, but someone is denying the current reality.

I gave you a link on collective narcissism and I think I hit the nail on the head, although you don’t seem to understand it.

Libertarians prize FREEDOM but when asked what freedom you are missing because of "big government", silence. Libertarians generally have no model of society as an interdependent group with a common purpose and common interests. It is narcissistic and empathy deficient. They want their needs met (FREEDOM) and care little if that harms the rest of society.