The Future Russia-China Alliance Takes Shape

wow

just wow

 

Is your little brain exploding with the thought?

Good, maybe it is time you woke up & made some independent investigations about the recent troubles in Ukraine & stopped simply accepting your spood fed medicine from the US state department via the US media.

Wake up little man.

 

ok, looks like you just want to bait & attack, not discuss.

bye bye

 

I said make some "independent investigation" for yourself.

All you said is "wow"

Where is your debatable comments in that?

Looser! So yes good bye Mr looser...

 

The question is stupid and childish. I do not see any reason to answer it. Put yourself in the place of any ordinary businessman for example, you have a certain business with a big corporation for many years. Later, you get an opportunity to start a business with another corporation without prejudice to the first one but it can to expand your own business and increase the incomes a little by 5-10%, for example. Will you refuse to use this opportunity if you not a lunatic?

Concerning to the second part of your post, buddy. You are just the product of anti-Russian propaganda. Unlike you, I live long enough. At 1991 in the year of Soviet Union's collapse I graduated university already. I perfectly remember all moods and desires of Russian people inside the country. You had absolutely pro-western Russia at 90s with the pro-Western Russian elite. Instead, to use this opportunity to attract Russia as a friend West has started to humiliate the country with thousand-year's old great history. Your so-called East European partners already in the 90s at a time when Russia was in ruins screaming that Russians want to conquer them and insulted us as well as you do it now in this forum. The turn in Russian public opinion was started since the bombing of Yugoslavia when NATO bombed our friendly country. Then the turn increased during the second Chechen campaign. When our soldiers died destroying bandit terrorist enclave in Chechnya, your media watered them with a dirt. What do you want after all of that from us now?

Read the post written by lunecat. He understands all properly, unlike you.

 

But this isn't a conventional war, G_M, this one is insidious and progressive, and we've never had to deal with anything like it before; you see, in the war to which you refer we could easily identify (note that word) our enemy, but in this one we can't, and it puts us at a distinct disadvantage? (am I really needing to explain that to a sentient human being? )

 

At last someone says it as it is that even the thickest can understand! Well done lunecat. But they still won't get it because they've been so brainwashed that it's now ingrained in their psyche, and it's impossible to reason with a closed mind.

 

Brillliant, bidjo. How easy it is to fool some folk?

 

Don't you think that Putin would have been more aware of the nuances of the situation than you and the Western MSM? When the EU attempted to bribe Ukraine to become a member it was so obviously nothing other than a cynical move to foment trouble in the region thereby giving NATO the excuse to begin its provocative exercises on Russia's doorstep. Why else would the EU want yet another net beneficiary state to subsidise?? But then when Russia reacts it's accused of (*)(*)(*)(*)ing aggression? FFS what's going on here!

 

Again you speak of trade, but we are talking about a military alliance. As I have said, you don't need to be allied to Russia in order to trade with them. again, the question is: What could Russia offer the US in a military alliance? MrFirst, your fellow russian, atleast acknowledges that Russia isn't a good alliance partner. I agree with him. Do you agree? Or do you think a US-Russian military alliance would make sense?

Look, I can understand things from a russian perspective. You think it was unnecessary for eastern europe to join NATO because you didn't think they had anything to fear from Russia. right? But look at it from their perspective: They had just gotten their independence after years of opression. Everyone had hopes that Russia would be a nice country, but they joined NATO just in case. If you were in their position, wouldn't you have joined NATO too? Try to see it from their perspective.

Also, what real threat did NATO pose? NATO would never try to invade Russia. Russia has nukes and a big army. they only joined for protection. NATO wasn't a threat. NATO shrank their military greatly after the cold war, because they didn't see russia as a threat anymore.

We tried to get Russia to be friends with the west, but in order for that to work Russia must accept that countries in eastern europe are now free, and can decide things for themselves. We want to be friends with Russia, but not at the cost of sacrificing the freedom of eastern europe.

Didn't yugoslavia deserve to be bombed though? There were genocides going on weren't there?

you handled the chechen war poorly, you deserve criticism for it. You commited war crimes.

 

No takers on this then? You must admit that it's extremely suspicious?? Gaius_Marius - any thoughts?

 

There are hundreds of millions of Europeans Cerb. You have to proper paranoid to think Europe is in an existential threat.
Man up. You are an embarrassment to the British.

Also... Where is this Muslim high command coordinating this massive effort? Muslims have as many internal division as Christians and they have nationalism. Please stop making yourself looking a fool. I mean. Both cowardly and foolish. Not very British. Maybe the foolish part.

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You have a fertile mind Cerb.

The same reason why everyone wants to;

[video=youtube;wDNqoo0cBCU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wDNqoo0cBCU[/video]

 

Sometimes having a common enemy can make a strong partnership. With BRICS already running, perhaps moreso in this case.

 

Look, we're talking about different things. I'm talking about the mutual respect and trade, you're talking about a certain military alliance. Against who NATO is going to war if Russia becomes the friendly country? NATO loses its reason for existence, as well as the military-industrial complex loses its source of funding. This is why the West needs an enemy, a powerful enemy. Since Al-Qaida and ISIS are not suited to this role because of their insignificance. Is it not obvious to you?

As to East European limitrophes. In fact, you are word-by-word are repeating the official propaganda about a free choice of independent countries and blah, blah, blah. In fact, the policy is a cynical thing, these countryes came out of the Soviet sphere of influence in the same time they fall into western sphere of influence and now they are used as an instrument of pressure on Russia. All of this can be tolerated, even their hysterical rudeness, but the situation boils down to fact we have got the sanitaire cordon which prevents our normal economic relations with West European countries, hurting our economy. All of this is accompanied by a boorish rhetoric against our country and their glorification of war criminals. Usually, such situation ends by wars, big wars.

I am historian and I know what happened in this territory 100, 200, 500 years ago. Nothing new, and their future is clear to me. Ukraine for example, exactly the same have started to repeat the way of Novgorod, Grand Duchy of Lithuania and Rechpospoita gone by them at different times. So it will come to the same result, that is, it disappears from the map of Europe until the end of XXI century. This will happen not because Russia is so bad, it will be because no one is able to cancel the laws of historical development. If someone has a strong neighbor and hinders the economic development of this neighbor, sooner or later, this neighbor will start to solve this problem. So mutual respect and politeness is always better than to be beaten for rudeness. Unfortunately East-Europe is just a tool for restraint the development of Russia. But all these talks about free choice of free countries, are just talks for poor.

First of all, no one people deserves to be bombed. If you say that any people deserves to be bombed, ask yourself the question: Am I better than a cannibal? Maybe you also deserve to be bombed by someone's opinion? You do not know what Albanians were doing with Serbs because your media did not tell you about it. West got into a complicated conflict, destroyed Christian country, and now you have Kosovan Albanians who control criminal business in many European countries. This is your payment for the crime against Yugoslavia.

The same situation with Chechnya. You know nothing about it. For example, you do not know what the so-called freedom fighters kidnaped children in Russian-speaking regions demanding a ransom from their parents. The dachshund was 15-30 thousands dollars for an ordinary family. What was the huge amount of money for a poor Russia of 90s. In the case of rich businessmen ransom reached up to several millions dollars. My daughter was born in 1994. We did not allow her to walk outdoors without adult relatives. You know nothing about it. As well as you do not know that in the period from 1992 to 1994, more than 300 thousands ethnic Russians were forced to leave Chechnya because of the ethnic cleansing started in this territory. More than 20 thousands Russians were killed having become victims of ethnic cleansing. Your media does not tell you about this. So all your so-called criticism is just a spittle in Russian soldier. If you know better than us how to restore order in such places show us a good example. There is a Russian proverb: Speaking is not the bags of coal rolling. Everyone can.

 

Yes dear, I know - but it isn't a question of killing them all, it's done by instilling abject fear into the populaces of the target countries, disrupting public events |(which can easily be done for the cost of a local phone call, or by leaving a backpack somewhere?), and generally causing a breakdown of civic confidence and morale. There's a way of doing exactly that by quite a simple expedient, but I don't want to post it here just in case the jihadists haven't thought of it, and I'd hate to be the one to put the idea into their heads. Then again they're much smarter than me, and they probably have thought about it and are biding their time.

You might think so - I couldn't possibly comment!

You're making the big mistake of underestimating them, G_M. But don't worry because you're in good company - governments and the intelligentsia are underestimating them too. Suffice to say that Islam is in no hurry. 'cowardly'? Well you couldn't possibly know that, but you do know that I'm no fool.

Yes I know, and there are times when I wish I didn't have a fertile mind - I'm sure that I'd be much happier In my naivete.

 

We are indeed speaking of different things. I asked you about a military alliance. The thread is about a military alliance. So why are you speaking of trade?

Do you agree that a US-russian military alliance is pointless?

Just propaganda? No. I think eastern europeans are very happy they are now free and independent, after many years under soviet opression. And they choose to join NATO and EU.

What cordon sanitaire? It's not just buffer states.. it's sovereign nations who can decide their future themselves, without russian meddling. And how is that preventing trade with the west? Also, as long as russian celebrate Stalin and the USSR russians have no right to complain about what others do.

And I really doubt Russia will re-annex eastern europe. The world has changed too much, things don't work like they used to.

People deserve to be bombed if they commit genocides. It's not a nice thing of course, but war is not nice. We can just sit there and watch as they commit genocide.

I bet the chechen war was brutal from both sides.. But I have heard that things like that russians deliberately targeting populated areas, and doing other war crimes. I have heard russians were as brutal as the chechens. One should always avoid harming civilians whenever possible.

 

You very badly read my post. US-Russian military alliance is meaningless because we do not have a common strong enemy that can unite us. All about we can say is the joint fight against terrorists somewhere in Asia, for example. We are not going to join with Americans in a certain type of alliance as NATO since we are not preparing for a big war aimed at the conquest of someone or defense from someone by American aid. The time of World War II is over. Moreover the US needs us as the enemy to save NATO, that is why we are forced to seek a military alliance with other countries, such as China.

Again, you word by word repeat the official propoganda: democracy , freedom , happy , evil Stalin and so on. I repeat this is all the explanations for poor people , do not be so primitive . Sometimes I think you are 12 years old.

In this case NATO had to bomb Albanians as well. US should bomb themselves for the genocide of American natives in XVIII-XIX centuries. Let's bomb Jews who made the genocide of the natives in Palestine of the XIII century BC. Have you read the Bible, the Book of Joshua. There is written everything. The fact that the followers of Moses did in Palestine at that time falls into the definition of genocide. Maybe let's bomb Sweden? I think someone can always find a reason to bomb you. Did you think , you also deserve to be bombed according to someone's opinion? Who is the judge, who decides to bomb or not to bomb? NATO? You do? Are you a god?

 

Did I say Sweden is part of NATO? Did I say anything about NATO? I said that Sweden is a small country which leadership depends on the USA, what is, from my point, is completely true. Not being a member of NATO formally, Sweden always follows the US foreign policy. Their military industry, which they are very proud of, also depends on the USA. Some companies belong to the US arms companies, they use a lion share of the US produced technologies and equipments. In general Swedish military industry belongs to the US and British corporations (which in turn also belong to American arms producers). Their Gripen fighter contains American engine, Amercian avionics, it brings American missiles etc. When Hugo Chavez wanted to buy Gripens to replace the outdated F-16s of Venezuelan Airforce, Amercians said - no, and Swedish obeyed. So, Chavez bought Russian Su-30s. That's all what you need to know about Sweden's neutrality.

 

In Turkey, Erdogan does genocide of Kurdish . Why US does not bomb Erdogan? Erdogan is son of a female dog, but he's USA son of a female dog?
So USA are watching " as they commit genocide" of Kurdish now?

.

 

Same reason we cant bomb russia or china: they are too powerful. Also, turkey is in nato. Yugoslavia was weak, its very different. If you are able, you should stop genocide, but we are not always able.

 

USA should have an impact It is for this reason. At least the condemnation in words........As in relation to Russia.

 

Yes it is indeed meaningless, I have been saying that all along. What are you even arguing?

Do you think eastern europeans would rather be ruled by Russia? do you even care what they think at all?

american natives were hundreds of years ago, yugoslavia was a few decades. obviously, what happened in the bible was thousands of years ago.. Time does matter.

or are you saying genocide is okay because others have done it in the past?

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They already are. Relations between Turkey and the west is at a low-point.

 

Sanctions?



.

 

well, they're still allies... so sanctions would be wierd.

 

I think that the Eastern Europeans as well as Western Europeans and all the people in all around the world basically believe they hear from TV. Also I think that journalists say only that things they get money for which. I also think the people who have a lot of money are able to pay only. So if these people will want their cattle to think that Russia is the enemy, be sure their cattle cohesively will put saucepans on their heads and will start jumping on maidan like Ukrainians 2 years ago.

So before writing a nonsense that Russia is going to conquer East Europe, ask us: Do Russians want to feed all this crowd of parasites? The burden of a superpower is a very heavy burden. Superpower must feed all of their satellites, sometimes to the detriment of own population. USSR overstrained itself and collapsed. US is now straining. The debt is 19 trillions US $, despite the fact they have the printing press of dollars.

I do not say that genocide is a good thing. I'm asking you. Who is the judge? NATO has accused one side of the conflict in the genocide action ignoring the same crimes made by the other side of the conflict. They sided to one of the participants of the conflict and have destroyed the country that did not threaten NATO at all. This is crime. Now Europe has the Muslim pseudo-state in Balkans. But the most interesting thing is Western Europe now faces the same problem that Jews have throughout the whole history of modern Israel. This is the same problem which Serbs and Russians tried to solve 20 years ago, NATO bombed Serbia and defamed Russia for the attempt to solve this problem.

It is very comfortable to sit somewhere in the distance of 2 thousands kilometers from the place where people kill each other and to discourse about morality. Now this is interesting to me to see in what way you are going to coax these savage animals.