The latest lie from anti-vaxxers

Well said.

I think the vaccination push would have much more success if health officials just went on treating covid cases, calmly encouraged vaccination and drop the martial music and hammers. Let people make their own decisions about their own health and get on with their lives and everybody else can get on with theirs.

 

If we had an honest government that followed the US Constitution, there never would have been a "vaccine" that isn't a vaccine, and the truth that the virus has a 99% survival rate would have driven policy. 21USC360 would have ruled, and the clot shots would never have gone to market.

But, we don't have any of those things that honest governance delivers.

 

I think in today’s environment, one must examine as much data as possible to arrive to the best conclusion, even if some things that you are looking at are really absurd.

 

I'm not anti vax, I have had all three shots, but I got them because I chose to do so and I believe they give me an edge. If the govt starts threatening consequences for a personal choice, there is going to be blowback and I have to side with the ones who want to make their own choice. They may be wrong or not, but it is their right to choose.

 

I’ve been saying that since this has all begun. I think these people that put themselves on some sort of moral pedestal are a joke. Then they will pat themselves on the back in public just to make themselves feel good about themselves. It’s hilarious

 

The more you tell someone to do something, the less likely they are going to do it. That includes indirect shame. I can't believe the OP is a doctor and either doesn't understand that concept or creates shame threads such as this one to perpetuate the situation.

There was nothing gained from reading this thread. No new medical knowledge or insight. It was just grand standing.

 

He holds no moral high ground on anyone.

 

In the US, maybe.

I even wonder if the government/health organisations had strongly discouraged vaccination, whether more would have sought the jab.

 

It’s rather sad that some people who really can address someone’s concerns choose to display arrogance instead.
If you are a pro at something and someone asks you a question that you don’t know an answer to - wouldn’t that be easier to just honestly admit that you are not sure about something instead of taking the “I’m smarter than you, shut up and do what you were told”? If science doesn’t have an answer to something, why not say so and then try to find something comparable and draw parallels to it, instead of insulting everyone around?
If your science is so accurate and settled, wouldn’t it be better to engage someone and go over their fears in detail?

 

we also have many libertarians who lean right, and yes democrats who can reason one side is never right all the time.

 

I agree. Let the science and the results over time argue it's own case.

Clearly labelling someone with a scarlet letter ISN'T the way to go. People will get the vaccine when they are comfortable with it. Unless you want to hold them down and force administer it in which case you may not like the backlash from doing so.

 

This is the sort of bias that is turning the scientific community into a religious cult. You don't know anything about the study yet you're happy to dismiss it immediately. Next time you wonder why people dont trust the science, this right here is why.

 

http://www.politicalforum.com/index...duce-immune-response-to-other-viruses.593516/

 

Same could be said about climate change - if a scientist risks their career just by touching a controversial issue, then how can we expect real science? In science you are supposed to always challenge established beliefs, not just confirm them.

 

((Sigh)). If only vaccinated people are travelling and are exposed to this variant then does it not make sense that more vaccinated people than unvaccinated will have been infected at the moment? That is until it spreads through the general population

 

It still doesn't appear you understand what I'm saying.

Use some common sense and some rough napkin paper calculations. It's absurd to say that most of the people who were infected in the country had travelled internationally. (Even if we assumed 2% of all travelers got infected, which is more than generous)

Your rationale sounds like a valid excuse, until we actually sit down to think about it.

 

But these studies do not exist in print - that was the point of MP’s post

 

Is it any less absurd to think that somehow the virus is selectively infecting vaccinated people?

 

Statistics are statistics.

At least my theory is logically possible.

 

That thread actually had one legitimate and highly plausible explanation - there is a greater share of people who recovered from covid among unvaccinated than among vaccinated, which would explain greater prevalence of mutated covid among vaccinated than among those who recovered and are counted among unvaccinated.
Not all parts of a virus mutate with the same rate. Those with natural immunity can still recognize some parts of the mutated virus, making it easier to fight and learn.

 

Except that there is no evidence that “natural immunity” is superior to vaccination

 

Well it's easier to throw your Internet credentials in someone's face and talk down to them than swallow ones ego than it is to realize the simple common sense that if you want people to hear what you have to say you don't be an egotistical and haughty taughty to them and talk down to them.

Now I'm not some fancy college graduate on the Internet or possibly in real life but even my common Sense tells me that.

I guess no matter how much education you pay for there are just certain things that cannot be taught to you

 

2% of travelers is a significant number given that there were relatively low numbers of Omicron compared to Delta. Those 2% also mixed with other fully vaccinated people at the arrival airport continually transmitting infections to other travelers and staff. Those infected vaccinated travelers go home to their families who are likely to also be vaccinated spreading Omicron within their family members (vaccinations or non-vaccinations tend to run in family units). Come back in a couple of weeks and then compare numbers

8th October: Travel bookings surge as U.K. takes S. Africa off red list
https://apnews.com/article/coronavi...south-africa-0eb8652753dbedf34c1849f2fc184e11

U.S. braces for surge of vaccinated international travelers
https://www.reuters.com/world/us/us-braces-surge-vaccinated-international-travelers-2021-11-07/

 

Batshit statement, it is a vaccine as claimed. It works as claimed and people who don't have it are more likely to die from the virus.

Perspective drives policy better. This is a virus that try as hard as society does, it IS going to infect everyone at some stage.

There are 314 million people in America, what do you figure 1% of them amounts to? All dead.

Batshit misinformation. The vaccine is not a "clot shot"

If the country was run by conspiracy theorist policy, it would be headless chickens and a thousand unsupported and crazy claims.

 

Om texture means these days since the definition was changed through force and not through linguistics, is that I'm against mandate at this point who cares the label doesn't carry as much negative it is it used to because you people insisted on it.