The Muslim Claim to Jerusalem

Discussion in 'Middle East' started by HBendor, Nov 27, 2015.

  1. Ronstar

    Ronstar Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    the Bible is very clear as to what happens to the Jews if & when they choose to disobey God's laws and rules. And keep in mind, most Israeli Jews are secular:

    14 “‘But if you will not listen to me and carry out all these commands, 15 and if you reject my decrees and abhor my laws and fail to carry out all my commands and so violate my covenant, 16 then I will do this to you: I will bring on you sudden terror, wasting diseases and fever that will destroy your sight and sap your strength. You will plant seed in vain, because your enemies will eat it. 17 I will set my face against you so that you will be defeated by your enemies; those who hate you will rule over you, and you will flee even when no one is pursuing you.

    27 “‘If in spite of this you still do not listen to me but continue to be hostile toward me, 28 then in my anger I will be hostile toward you, and I myself will punish you for your sins seven times over. 29 You will eat the flesh of your sons and the flesh of your daughters. 30 I will destroy your high places, cut down your incense altars and pile your dead bodies on the lifeless forms of your idols, and I will abhor you. 31 I will turn your cities into ruins and lay waste your sanctuaries, and I will take no delight in the pleasing aroma of your offerings. 32 I myself will lay waste the land, so that your enemies who live there will be appalled. 33 I will scatter you among the nations and will draw out my sword and pursue you. Your land will be laid waste, and your cities will lie in ruins. 34 Then the land will enjoy its sabbath years all the time that it lies desolate and you are in the country of your enemies; then the land will rest and enjoy its sabbaths. 35 All the time that it lies desolate, the land will have the rest it did not have during the sabbaths you lived in it.

    36 “‘As for those of you who are left, I will make their hearts so fearful in the lands of their enemies that the sound of a windblown leaf will put them to flight. They will run as though fleeing from the sword, and they will fall, even though no one is pursuing them. 37 They will stumble over one another as though fleeing from the sword, even though no one is pursuing them. So you will not be able to stand before your enemies. 38 You will perish among the nations; the land of your enemies will devour you. 39 Those of you who are left will waste away in the lands of their enemies because of their sins; also because of their ancestors’ sins they will waste away.


     
  2. Ddyad

    Ddyad Well-Known Member

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    This is how God ordered the Hebrews to deal with the people living in what the Romans later called Palestine:

    “and when Yahweh your God shall deliver them up before you, and you shall strike them; then you shall utterly destroy them: you shall make no covenant with them, nor show mercy to them;” World English Bible, Deuteronomy 7.2
    http://biblehub.com/deuteronomy/7-2.htm

    Of course, the Jews ignored those instructions - as usual. I suspect their ability to do that is why they are “God’s chosen people”. The rest of us mere mortals would never have the guts to defy a direct order from God Almighty. Jews are a great lesson for the rest of us on what not to do. ;-)
     
  3. HBendor

    HBendor New Member

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    All of that from a person who pretend to be a Jew, a secular Jew at best but.........>
    Surprise, Surprise uses Jewish Law to explain his abhorrent hate of Israeli Jews.

    Here is a paper I wrote in school a few good years back and very much apropos in explaining the turbulence and the confusion...

    The Land of Israel is the exclusive home of the Jewish people...
    ~by HBendor

    The Palestinian Arabs have NO RIGHT to the land of Israel...NONE whatsoever!

    When 7 x Arab Armies went to war with Israel instead of compromising in 1948 and lost, they lost whatever claims to Israel's land they raised, as would have happened to Israel had Israel lost.

    (Why don't the Arabs also claim Spain/Andalous...? They conquered it and ruled it 800 long years until they were ignominiously thrown out from there).

    There are no unique Palestinian Arab people. The word "refugees" used in UN Resolution 242 is proof positive that there is none! Jews should not lose too much sleep about such a non-tragedy of the failure of a non-people to find national expression. If Israel was to give these refugees part of the Land, they could very well in time become a people opposing the real owners of that Land..

    No sane Israeli government would do that or should do that since such a nation would be nothing but a tool for the Arabs to relieve Israel of her national existence and all the Arabs understand it in that way.

    Again...The Land of Israel is the exclusive home of the Jewish people, and NO other people have the slightest right to it!

    The Arabs are thieves who entered Israel in the Seventh Century when the Jewish people were forcefully exiled from it.

    Arabs have long been the objects of other people's history. It is easily understandable that they wish to become actors in their own right and authors of their own destiny. They have taken hold of an opportunity to improve their lot by exploiting their tenacity and changes in international circumstances.

    Historical evidence proves that the word "Palestine" is derived from the Philistines, who in the 12th Century BCE, settled along the Mediterranean coastal plain of what is now Israel and the Gaza Strip. After crushing the last Jewish revolt, the Romans first applied the name Palaestina to Judea, the southern portion of what is now called the West Bank, in an attempt to minimize Jewish identification with the land of Israel. The Arabic word "Filastin" is derived from this Latin name. There is no 'P' in the Arab alphabet!

    The Twelve Tribes of Israel formed the first constitutional monarchy in Palestine about 1000 BCE The second king, David, first made Jerusalem the nation's capital. Although eventually Palestine was split into two separate kingdoms, Jewish independence there lasted for 212 years. This is almost as long as Americans have enjoyed independence in what has become known as the United States.

    When Jews began to RETURN to their HOME/Palestine in large numbers in 1882, fewer than 250,000 Arabs lived there. The great majority of the Arab population in recent decades were comparative newcomers-either late immigrants or descendants of persons who had immigrated into Palestine in the previous years.

    Palestine was NEVER an exclusively Arab country, No independent Arab or Palestinian state ever existed in Palestine. When the distinguished Arab-American historian, Princeton University Prof. Philip Hitti, testified against partition before the Anglo-American Committee in 1946, he said: "There is no such thing as Palestine in history, absolutely not." In fact, Palestine is never explicitly mentioned in the Qur’an, rather it is called "holy land" (al-Arad al Muqaddassah).

    At that time, Palestinian Arabs did not view themselves as having a separate identity. When the First Congress of Muslim-Christian Associations met in Jerusalem in February 1919 to choose Palestinian representatives for the Paris Peace Conference, the following resolution was adopted:

    We consider Palestine as part of Arab Syria, as it has never been separated from it at any time. We are connected with it by national, religious, linguistic, natural, economic and geographical bonds.

    In 1937, a local Arab leader, Auni Bey Abdul-Hadi, told the Peel Commission, which ultimately suggested the partition of Palestine: "There is no such country as Palestine! Palestine is a term the Zionists invented! There is no Palestine in the Bible. Our country was for centuries part of Syria."

    The representative of the Arab Higher Committee to the UN submitted a statement to the general Assembly in May 1947 that said, "Palestine was part of the Province of Syria" and that, "politically, the Arabs of Palestine were not independent in the sense of forming a separate political entity." A few years later, Ahmed Shuqueiri, later the chairman of the PLO, told the Security Council: "It is common knowledge that Palestine is nothing but southern Syria."

    Palestinian Arab nationalism is largely a post-World War I phenomenon that did not become a significant political movement until after the 1967 Six-Day War and Israel's LIBERATION of JUDEA and SAMARIA (the West Bank.)

    My friend hit the books; find a padded seat in your local library and check the above!
     
  4. Ronstar

    Ronstar Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I am a Jew, don't ever question this again.

    and yes, secular Jews who don't follow Kosher or Hallachah, but bark about God-given land deeds, are hypocrites and liars.

    according to the Bible, God has special punishments for such people.
     
  5. HBendor

    HBendor New Member

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    So all religious Jews are as you mentioned 'hypocrites and liars' since they do not follow your non religious ethics... I am not proud of my secular life either, but I am a proud Israeli JEW! Where do I file my category to appeal to the rest of the world?

    In short, the Land of Israel is a <whole>... to subdivide it is like dismembering a healthy body to attach <prosthetic> instead just to enable it to function...
     
  6. Ronstar

    Ronstar Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    according to the Bible, Jews who are secular are rejecting God, rejecting his laws, rejecting his regulations, and will be PUNISHED by God, not rewarded with the Land of Israel.

    the Bible says such Jews will have the Land of Israel TAKEN from them, they will face terror...all because they reject God's rules & regulations.


    but if you will not listen to me and carry out all these commands, 15 and if you reject my decrees and abhor my laws and fail to carry out all my commands and so violate my covenant, 16 then I will do this to you: I will bring on you sudden terror, wasting diseases and fever that will destroy your sight and sap your strength. You will plant seed in vain, because your enemies will eat it. 17 I will set my face against you so that you will be defeated by your enemies; those who hate you will rule over you, and you will flee even when no one is pursuing you.

    the vast majority of Israel's Jews, are secular.

    67%


    they have NO right, NO business, talking about Land promised to them by God in the Bible.
     
  7. HBendor

    HBendor New Member

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    This majority as you call then carry the land, fought for that land, made it prosperous, made it fruitful, made it productive, they have the most inventions to their name for a tiny country, they have lately found a cure to certain cancers, in short Israel is the most <innovative country> in the world.
    Israel has the best Army, Navy, and Air force in this world, I am proud to be part of that... have a nice night.
     
  8. Ronstar

    Ronstar Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    that's great, but they have no (*)(*)(*)(*)ing business claiming that God has given them the land, or that they have a Biblical land deed to israel.

    when they say this, they are hypocrites.
     
  9. aenigma

    aenigma Well-Known Member

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    does it matter ? in the end they just enforce that claim
    the only claim muslims have is that of used to be conquerors that got there asses kicked back out later and are crying a river about it now
     
  10. Ronstar

    Ronstar Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    yes, hypocrisy does matter.

    when secular Jews talk about promises from God, it does matter
     
  11. HBendor

    HBendor New Member

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    Putting this disrespectful yarn aside...

    Presumably, even Cameron expects &#8220;East Jerusalem&#8221; to be the capital of a &#8220;Palestinian State&#8221; some day. But I have a big flash for the prime minister:

    It does not matter what fabrications the Palestinian Arabs feed him, there is no &#8220;East&#8221; Jerusalem. There is only an eastern section of a united Jerusalem, which is the capital of Israel. On July 30, 1980, the Knesset passed into Basic Law: Jerusalem, complete and united, is the capital of Israel.

    See: https://www.knesset.gov.il/laws/special/eng/basic10_eng.htm

    From the time that David established Jerusalem as the capital of Israel, over 3,000 years ago, until this day, Jerusalem has never the capital of any nation other than Israel. And it never will be.

    Jerusalem was divided only once, for 19 years, from the War of Independence in 1948 until the Six Day War of 1967. During that period, Jordan, which occupied the eastern part of the city illegally, rendered it Judenrein, in spite of the fact that the holiest Jewish sites were in that part of the city. Jordan had committed to allowing Jewish access to those sites &#8211; most notably the Kotel - but instead went about destroying synagogues and desecrating the cemetery.

    Because Jews were banished from the eastern part of the city, when Israel liberated it in 1967, it contained only Arab neighborhoods. Thus did it become known as the &#8220;Arab&#8221; part of Jerusalem. But this is no longer the case. In some instances new neighborhoods have been constructed. In other instances, Jews have bought and moved into homes that had originally been Jewish but then taken over by Arabs in 1948. (The Silwan area is a case in point.)

    People who are promoting that &#8220;two state solution&#8221; envision drawing a line down the middle of Jerusalem and separating it into Jewish and Arab sections. The reality is quite different, however, as Jews now also live in the eastern part of the city, as they have every right to do. There is no way to divide the city. Cameron&#8217;s call of distress about a ring of Jewish neighborhoods surrounding &#8220;Arab&#8221; Jerusalem is simply misinformed nonsense.

    Take a look at the map below and you will see that the Mount of Olives is in a predominantly Arab neighborhood. But on that Mount is the oldest Jewish cemetery in the world, containing over 150,000 graves &#8211; including graves of some people of astounding significance to Jewish history. When it was under Jordanian control, tombstones were lifted to use in constructing latrines. Should it be a part of a separate &#8220;Arab&#8221; Jerusalem? Should the Old City?

    From Arlene Kushners dispatch.
     
  12. Ronstar

    Ronstar Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    just cause Israel annexed West Bank land in 1967 and called the land to the east and north "jerusalem" doesn't make it part of Jerusalem.

    never, in 2,000 years of history, were most of these lands part of Jerusalem.

    that makes "United Jerusalem", a fraud and a lie.
     
  13. HBendor

    HBendor New Member

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    Well here we think differently... I have noticed that you are opinionated and I do appreciate that. Well again, your opinion is flawed basically and I found the exact document to back it up. Here goes...

    Go Israel, go!!

    Proud to be Jewish !!!





    JUST TO MAKE YOU FEEL BETTER....



    These numbers are pride and joy for those who are Israel's friends and well-wishers throughout the world.


    Apparently I cannot post the schematic design... let me explain. This is a comparison between 1984 and 2014. The first line depict 1984 and the second line 2014... i.e the Population was 4,1 million in 1984 and became 8,2 Million in 2014... and so it goes for inflation etc.,

    1984
    2014

    1
    Population -
    4,1 Million
    8.2 million

    2
    Inflation &#8211;
    447%
    -0.02%

    3
    Yearly bank interest &#8211;
    771%
    .25%

    4
    Government deficit of GDP
    17%
    2.5%

    5
    Defense budget of GDP -
    20%
    5.5%

    6
    Currency reserve &#8211;
    3.3 Billion dollar
    90 Billion dollar

    7
    Export -
    10 Billion dollar
    90 Billion dollar

    8
    Hi-Tech export &#8211;
    0
    28 Billion dollar

    9
    Women employment &#8211;
    30%
    53%

    10
    Manufacturing -
    30 Billion dollar
    320 Billion dollar

    11
    GDP per capita -
    7.000 dollar
    39,000 dollar
     

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