The Republican Presidential Candidate Democrats Should Fear

You want a candidate based on their skin color. That is the definition of wokeness.

 

Wrong again. I also admire Nikki Haley and NH Governor Sununu.

 

Actually, I like Scott but not because he's black and you mentioned in your OP that Scott's candidacy would put a 'monkey wrench' into the dem party since Scott was black.

 

The words "monkey wrench" and "black" never appear in the OP.

 

IOW, you like his policies but you don't like his brash "New Yorker" attitude. I guess I'm a person who cares about results more than anything else, and Trump definitely brought results that no other recent President since Reagan has brought. His attitude is irrelevant to me. Honestly, Joe Biden's yelling, racist, elitist, lying, authoritative, creepy around children attitude offends me much more than Trump's does, but people focus on Trump's attitude because that's what the media focuses on and what the media gets people talking about.

Yeah, tribalists from both sides do this.

Biden's juvenile, combative, unpresidential behavior didn't energize Republicans?

There already IS a constitutional crisis... the Uniparty doesn't recognize the document anymore. They mow over it left and right and We The People don't hold them accountable for it. Democrats don't follow election laws anymore and they harvest ballots instead of appealing to voters. The "constitutional crisis" is that elections are now being outright stolen away from the will of We The People. -- -Trump didn't do anything wrong regarding J6... he called for peace the whole time... Elections that are not conducted lawfully are not valid elections. Biden is an illegitimate puppet.

He is quite literally the only R candidate with ANY shot at winning in 2024... The others all have a snowball's chance in hell at winning.

Of course he will, because he has to, because they are all against him, playing for "Team RINO". I don't think you understand the full scope of what the Uniparty is and how it works, as you still think that (outside of Trump) you still have legitimate choices between candidates when it comes down to energy policy and foreign policy in particular. In reality, this is the choice that you have:

Trump ---> Team nationalist, Team MAGA, Team pro-peace, Team manufacture in USA, Team eat meat

DeSantis (et al) ---> Team globalist, Team RINO, Team slava ukraini!, Team manufacture in China, Team eat the bugs

Choosing anybody other than Trump is choosing against your own "working class" "Main Street" economic interests. Yes, DeSantis (et al) might win a culture war or two for you, but your pocketbook will continue hurting all the same whether under him or whether under another Democrat.

If he is nominated, the Uniparty will do everything in their power re: election fraud to deny him the win.

Is he really "defending the best interests of his state"? Right now he's too busy campaigning for President... I mean, on a "book tour"... And for how "pro-freedom" "Top Gov" DeSantis is, recent developments within his state have been rather concerning. One of them is State Senate bill 1316, which would require any blogger writing about government officials to register with the Florida Office of Legislative Services or the Commission on Ethics. --- That smells rather authoritarian and rather "Zelensky-esque" to me...

And once the primaries get rolling, DeSantis will eventually have to account for his lies regarding "keeping Florida open" during COVID, and regarding his implementation of authoritarian measures in the name of COVID.

I'm being realistic too, and if we're being realistic, the "country you love" no longer exists. What was once the republic of the USA is now a Washington DC oligarchy with individual states (except for New York and California, which are now an oligarchy and a dictatorship respectively) that will either support or oppose the DC oligarchy.

Trump is the only candidate who is supporting the nationalist energy, economic, and foreign policy interests of We The People. All other candidates are supporting elitist Wall Street energy, economic, and foreign policy interests. As I said earlier:

Trump ---> Team nationalist, Team MAGA, Team pro-peace, Team manufacture in USA, Team eat meat

DeSantis (et al) ---> Team globalist, Team RINO, Team slava ukraini!, Team manufacture in China, Team eat the bugs


Everything else (such as culture wars, attitudes, personalities, etc) is just noise... distraction... diversion... Regardless of his flaws (everyone has them), it is Trump or bust with regard to nationalist energy policy, economic policy, and foreign policy.

 

I don't like his dishonorable, dishonest behavior.

 

You must have skipped 23 years of GOP politics. This is not 2000 primary and W. Bush and John McCain fighting for vote. This is 2023. GOP like Tim Scott has no business in republican party. Ronald Reagan himself will not be nominee in 2024, you think Regan's disciples has any chance? The kind of conservatism you believe is dead.

Trump is all the way!

 

We disagree. The principles on which Ronald Reagan ran and won are eternal.

 

You know what? I agree with you mostly. I voted for Trump in both 2016 and 2020. I knew that policy was far more important than personality. I didn't like Trump's personal behavior because I knew it would lead to his downfall in 2020. And I don't think of his behavior as "brash New Yorker". I think of it as undisciplined, childish, thin skinned and self destructive. It didn't keep me from voting for him, but I knew it was destroying his chances for reelection. And it wasn't the media's fault; it was Trump's fault. And by the way, everything about Biden and his administration offends me too. We agree on that. We could agree on that all day long if that was the topic, but it isn't right now.

We disagree. In 2020 94% of Democrats and 54% of Independents voted for Biden. And that was before the January 6th event. You may not think Trump bore any responsibility for that, but, again, that's not the point I'm arguing. The point is, it does matter to other voters. So you look at the percentages I mentioned from the 2020 election and you add the effect of January 6th, and the only outcome you can expect from a 2024 Trump candidacy is a decisive loss. I think the loss would be so overwhelming as to make it undeniable. To use your words, he hasn't got a snowball's chance in hell.

Let's just say hypothetically that Trump dropped out and let the Republicans pick someone else. And let's say hypothetically that the Republicans won. There would still be a legion of Trump policy supporters in the country, some in Congress, and Trump himself to push against the "Team RINO" policies. They would be a formidable force, and I have fair confidence that they would hold significant power over policy.

No, I will never accept that. My country is imperfect because people are imperfect. The "country I love" are her people, her history, and the freedom and opportunity she represents. Even though I'm getting old, if she were ever invaded, I'd still get my rifle and ammo and fight and die for her.

We've had a good exchange, free of personal attacks.

The 2024 election is still a little over a year and a half away. And when we're talking about people as old as Trump and Biden, anything could happen between now and then. It could be that this whole conversation will be moot by then. But if does play out the way we've talked about, I hope you'll remember this conversation and perhaps we can revisit it then.

Seth

 

I am liberal so off course we disagree. But I don’t matter.

Your own party supporter call Regan and anyone who subscribe to Regan’s politics RINO.

 

but you like Trump's policy?

 

What do you think Trump will do if he is not nominee?

 

Hold a stop the steal rally in DC and encourage his mindless base to storm the Capitol again.

 

If Democrats really moved to the left then today we might have had President Sanders then President Biden.

 

I'm not interested in what names people call each other. My standard statement about party affiliation is that I'm an old-fashioned midwest Republican; my party no longer exists.
As for Trump, you'd have to be more specific about which policy. My standard statement about him is that the fact that I despise Trump does not require me to admire his opponents.

 

I don't know. Maybe ask to be a write-in candidate? Go scorched earth against the Republican nominee? I really have no idea.

 

Definitely a good exchange. We happen to agree on a lot of things, yet see the overall political landscape rather differently, and that's okay. Maybe time will change that.

I think we both can see the "nationalist vs globalist" situation and the "oil vs solar panels" situation, and I think we agree there, but where we part ways is you seem to believe that other Republicans can/will be on "Team Nationalist" and "Team Oil", and that's simply not the case from what I've seen from them.

Yes, there's lots of time yet... things change... etc. but so far the only person I've seen who is on "Team Nationalist" and "Team Oil" (and etc, as stated in prior responses) is Donald Trump, so at this point that's the only person who I can, in good conscience, support and vote for.

• I was a bit too young to vote for McCain, but I would've if I could've. I liked him back then, and I liked Palin (and still do).
• I voted for Romney mostly just because I couldn't stand Obama, which is the type of attitude that you brought up earlier, and I had a rather strong tribalist "Republican good, Democrat bad" attitude back then.
• I voted for Trump mostly solely because I loved seeing someone FINALLY dish it out against the corrupt media instead of cowering to them. I also partly had cautious optimism for his policies if he was being honest about them and I partly supported him simply because Hillary was/is such an old hag. Trump later turned out to be everything I had ever hoped for policy wise. Yes, some of the things he says/does are rather "cringeworthy" at times, but I dismiss it because his policies are very good.
• I voted for Trump again because he was such an amazing President in terms of his national and domestic policies. This is the first time I truly voted FOR a candidate, and now due to what I've learned regarding the "Uniparty" situation, that's the way I want to continue my voting (FOR any candidate who is against the "Uniparty").
• For 2024, atm, unless Trump dies between now and then, I will be voting FOR Trump one way or another, and I will not settle for any RINOs or RINO-supported candidates such as Romney anymore. So far in this race, Nikki Haley is a RINO hard pass for me, and Ron DeSantis will be too, for the reasoning I've already given, once he stops pretending that his "book tour" isn't presidential campaigning.

 

At least you got one part of the political puzzle right. The Progressive Democrats will support a “He’s an Uncle Tom,” whispering campaign.

As for the other part, I listened to most of Trump’s C-PAC speech last night. He made many many points with which I agree. The trouble is he droned on for well over an hour and came off sounding like a demagogue. The trouble is with his style and his personality. It pleases you, but it does not attract the voters in the center that we need to win. If they vote for him, it will be because they are totally sick of Biden, if he gets the Democrat nomination.

Trump lost my wife’s support with his foolish behavior after the 2020 election. Once the votes were counted, there was no reversing the result, even if it was crooked. The correct strategy will be to fight fire with fire. Reform the voting laws as has been done in Florida and Georgia or mount campaigns to duplicate the Democrat vote harvesting strategies.

You should refrain from making DeSantis into a RINO Bush Republican. It is totally false and counterproductive. If you want to do some good, you need to sell people on Trump. No one, who follows the issues, is going to believe the line that DeSantis and Tim Scott are agents for the RINO Bush - Cheney Republicans.

 

You are right, your party is dead yet your naïveté to resurrect your party is laudable. You think Tim Scott can resurrect your party? No. Tim Scott is a coward who hide his head while Trump ravaged thru the country since 2015. You think Midwest old fashioned GOP like Paul Ryan can save the party. Off course not. Paul bowed his head to Trump and then left the party without a fight. Mitch McConnell dream every night that Trump and Trump politics will vanish if he just ignore Trump. These people will not solve any thing , they are part of the problem.

Today your party think Dick Cheney is a RINO. You think you can bring these people back to ‘old fashioned “ Conservatism?

 

We live in hope.

 

We're agreed here.

It's a fair criticism... Trump's personality/style/ego is definitely not for everybody. There's a part of it that pleases me, and another part of it that I find "cringeworthy". I ignore the "cringeworthy" factor in favor of the results that he produces, as that matters to me much more than personalities do. We The People are in the trenches of a war for the soul of this nation, and we need someone with Trump's nationalist pro-USA fighting mentality to lead the way as the "warhammer" instead of someone who is yet another Team Globalist RINO squish.

I'd suggest letting your wife know that "fighting fire with fire" is precisely what Trump's strategy is for 2024... and not only to duplicate their strategies, but to outdo them at their own game.

Absolutely not, and it is not false if you'd actually dig into recent history and current events regarding DeSantis, so this is where I disagree with you vehemently.

Why should any rational adult believe that DeSantis is going to represent the interests of the MAGA voter base when he is being funded almost exclusively by elitist globalist big donors such as Ken Griffin, and by corrupt groups such as the Club for No Growth and the RepubliCON Governor's Association? Meanwhile, Trump is receiving large swaths of small dollar donations from millions upon millions of people across the country (under $200/each).

Why should any rational adult believe that DeSantis is going to represent the interests of the MAGA voter base when he and his "book tour" (pretense for his campaign) is being endorsed by elitist globalist RINOs (who have screwed over the common working man for decades) such as Paul Ryan and Jeb Bush? He has not declined those endorsements btw...

Why should any rational adult believe that DeSantis (and his campaign, I mean "book tour") is genuine/authentic when he's taken the very same "reading a book to his children" "family photo" that Ted Cruz took in 2016 and when a bunch of CONservative social media influencers (such as Dave Rubin) "randomly stumbled into" DeSantis' governor's mansion all on the same day (January 6th 2022) "without any sort of invite from, or organization by, anyone on Team DeSantis", so we're told to believe? Those very same people have hung out together multiple times in public since then too. Team Trump doesn't have to inauthentically invite together (and pay) a bunch of CONservative media influencers to manipulatively ram a pro-DeSantis agenda down people's throats.

My point is that conservative voters reeeeeeeeeeeeally need to take a closer look at DeSantis and the people who are funding/managing/endorsing "Top Gov" DeSantis and his "book tour" (campaign). DeSantis also has a voting record in Congress that was for shitty trade agreements that continue to screw over American workers (such as the TPP). DeSantis also refuses to call for, or present a plan for, peace between Ukraine/Russia. IOW, he refuses to condemn the soon-to-be WWIII (Team "slavi ukraini!") because he's pro-war, no different than the McCain and Bush types of RINOs. DeSantis is also a supporter of Team "eat the bugs" (solar panels/windmills), rather than being a supporter of Team "feasible energy" (coal, oil, natural gas).

DeSantis will focus on being a "Top Gov" culture warrior, because that's all he has. Past that, he has numerous issues to address... besides what I've already mentioned regarding his poor energy and foreign policy, he will also have to account for his lies regarding "remaining free and open for business" during the COVID lockdown nonsense. Even entering into the race is going to suck for him because he's either gonna have to step down as Governor per Florida law (Floridians who elected him for their Governor are going to be PISSED if he does that) or else the Florida legislature will have to change state law "special special" for Mr. "Top Gov" so he can remain Governor while running, which once people become aware of that they won't be so happy about that either. Gonna suck either way.

Then there's many common working class folk like me who are taking a "Trump or bust" mentality to the 2024 Presidential (s)election. DeSantis will not win, even regardless of fraud, because many people like me simply won't be reluctantly voting for him as we've done in the past because we no longer see the point of voting for a "Team RINO" globalist over a "Team Democrat" globalist. We are long past caring about potentially winning a culture war or two and simply want a legitimate second option (a nationalist option) to Team Globalist so that our bank accounts stop getting bent over furniture. We're sick of getting bent over furniture in favor of globalist agenda items such as the Ukraine grift, the COVID grift, and the Climate grift.

 

Capitol police removed barriers and allowed people to come in, dude. It's on video. Trump did not encourage any sort of vandalism or violence (he encouraged peaceful protest the whole time).

 

I live in Florida, and he is my governor. I look at his actions, like going after Disney, not a lot of made up fluff that is supposed to get people to vote for Trump in the primaries. I am not going to vote for him in the primaries because he has lost my confidence that he can win the 2024 presidential election. He has become a cult figure, who might have 40 to 50 percent of the Republican vote in the primaries, but who has alienated many voters for the general election. Those goes way beyond the Trump hating Democrats and the RINO Republicans like the Bushes and the Cheneys.

Trump starts fights when it is not necessary. Do I like Mitch McConnel? Not particularly, but I'm not going to start a fight with him now in a speech when Biden and company are destroying the country. This is Trump's problem. He starts wars within the party when there are more important issues, like Democrat control, to address. He's like Ross Perot. Everything has to obit around HIM.

There is also the matter of his age. Yes, he's in great shape for a guy who almost 77 years old, but as president he will be over 80. I'm 74, and I've seen myself slow down. We need the next generation. We need younger people. We need to turn the page on Bernie Sanders, Joe Biden and Donald Trump.

 

AKA Trump is in good company.

 

While I agree Scott would be a formable candidate in 2024, like DeSantis he first must get past Trump in the GOP primaries. If you have a multi field GOP primary, Trump has the solid support of around 40-45% of the republican base. More than enough to win primary after primary with the rest dividing their votes between Haley, Scott, DeSantis and a few others. Much like in 2016 when Trump was wining primary after primary by garnering around 35% of the vote in a huge primary field.


Scott has the ability to reattract republican leaning independents that deserted Trump in 2020 voting for Biden, but voting republican down ballot enabling the GOP to gain 13 house seats, 2 state legislatures and a governorship. Where Trump received but 41% of the independent vote in 2020, 48% of independents voted for Republican congressional candidates. I don’t see republican leaning independents voting for Trump in 2024 but would vote for Scott. It was Trump the man, the individual, the person these independents voted against. Not his policies. It was Trump’s childish antics like name calling and throwing of temper tantrums along with this 3rd grade bullying tactics. Trump’s very unpresidential behavior turned these independents off. They still don’t like Trump with 58% of independents say they don’t want Trump to run again in 2024 along with 60% of independents viewing Trump unfavorable. Scott doesn’t have these problems.