The state of the vaccines

Discussion in 'Coronavirus Pandemic Discussions' started by CenterField, Aug 14, 2020.

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  1. kreo

    kreo Well-Known Member

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    It is logarithmic chart, you should post linear.
     
  2. clennan

    clennan Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Research suggests that people dissatisfied with small-scale explanations may need to explain large-scale events with causes of a similar magnitude. When institutional explanations feel unsatisfactory, they may create a version of events that accords with the magnitude of the problem.
    https://thedecisionlab.com/insights/society/tackling-conspiracy-theories-amid-covid-19/
     
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  3. clennan

    clennan Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Why? This is precisely the sort of data that the logarithmic scale is used for.

    Sorry that it doesn't suit your narrative, even though it's exactly how you thought the line should go, when you posted your hand drawn-one that time.
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2022
  4. kreo

    kreo Well-Known Member

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    Logarithmic is used only if we are measuring potentially infinite number of cases.
    In case of COVID cases the number is limited to the population of United States so logarithmic scale cannot be applied.
    we should use this one.
    If vaccine provide any help then orange line would have flattened.
    upload_2022-1-30_17-22-33.png
     
  5. clennan

    clennan Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    LOL Log scales are used when there's a wide range of data. As here, where it goes from 1 to 900,000.
     
  6. kreo

    kreo Well-Known Member

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    That is you opinion.
     
  7. truth and justice

    truth and justice Well-Known Member

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    There have been 7 cases in two weekends in less than 100 matches since Christmas where matches had to be stopped due to spectators having heart problems in the stadium. These occurred in minor league matches where crowds were just a few thousand. This is not the situation described in your links which refer to people on a football holiday going to major international matches where people spent all day in bars. Also that would not explain the sudden increase in cases when compared with the past. I have watched and followed football for 50 years and have never known a season where so many matches had to be stopped midway through the game. It could be argued that these spectators had Covid which was the cause of the heart attack and not caused by the vaccine but this is why an investigation is required
     
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  8. Sallyally

    Sallyally Well-Known Member Donor

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    Interesting. Doesn’t seem to be an issue in Australia.
    Objective: To review whether watching football increases the population cardiac event risk in New South Wales.
    Design: Analysis of hospital admissions for acute myocardial infarction, other cardiovascular disease, and other acute injuries at the time of two stressful sporting events in NSW in 2005: the Sydney Swans playing in the Australian Football League (AFL) Grand Final, and the Socceroos’ penalty shoot-out in their World Cup qualifying match against Uruguay.
    Results: There were no increases in any of the studied admission events at the time of, or in the days immediately following, these football matches.
    Conclusions: Australians appear to be resistant to acute stressors associated with watching sporting events, possibly due to higher rates of motivational deficiency disorder (MoDeD) than in European populations.
    https://www.mja.com.au/journal/2006/185/11/hazards-watching-football-are-australians-risk
     
  9. clennan

    clennan Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    No it's not. You are totally misinformed - log scale charts are not reserved for numbers that are "potentially infinite." In fact the potential to run into infinity is irrelevant - for any kind of chart. Why? Because charts plot known data. They’re used because of their capacity to do something linear charts do not - they show data in terms of percentage change, including small changes that become hard or impossible to see on a linear chart with a wide range of numbers.
     
  10. clennan

    clennan Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Apologies if it seemed I was dismissing or contradicting your concern, as that wasn't my intent. I wasn't aware of this before so was just adding some other food for thought into the mix, on the hoof as it were.
     
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  11. Pollycy

    Pollycy Well-Known Member

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    @CenterField , please, what is your opinion about whether or not the vaccines and their 'boosters' are effective against BA.2, or not...?

    As usual, the 'talking-heads' are all over the place on this Omicron sub-variant, saying that it's really no big deal, even though it spreads much faster than ordinary, 'garden-variety' Omicron. We also get a lot of conflicting information indicating that numbers of cases are dropping dramatically... even though hospitals in many parts of the country (Colorado among them) are full-to-bursting.

    I'm ridiculed by friends who are actually quite vexed with me for still wearing a mask, and, in some places, even a face shield, too. For my part, I'll do what I think best, and, if BA.2 is indeed spreading at 'the speed of light' and *merely* putting people in hospitals, I think I'll pass on all of that, my friends' opinions notwithstanding.... Your opinion matters, though... so, what do you make of the threat of BA.2...?
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2022
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  12. CenterField

    CenterField Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It seems to be 33% more infectious than the ancestral Omicron, which is just getting to mind-boggling infectiousness. This bugger is hell bent in being the most infectious virus ever known to men. It seems to be similar in lethality to BA.1. It may be more resistant to vaccines but paradoxically, harder to be transmitted by vaccinated individuals. These conclusions come from a Danish study of 8,500 households and are still preliminary. We'll see. But yes, I wouldn't lower the guard just yet. This virus keeps throwing curveballs at us anytime we start feeling optimistic again.
     
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  13. Pollycy

    Pollycy Well-Known Member

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    Thank you for your always-quick response, Dr. Center, and thank you also for this information, which has led me to find this link: https://www.reuters.com/business/he...-than-original-danish-study-finds-2022-01-31/

    Also, here is one that indicates that the UNvaxxed are much more vulnerable: https://www.businessinsider.com/omi...d-vaccinated-boosted-denmark-household-2022-1

    It is such an enigma, as you suggest... this newest variant spreads faster than any virus in human experience, but, so far, it isn't a big 'killer' (whew!). With a 'science-fiction' imagination like mine, you can just imagine the scenarios racing through my mind. Thanks for helping me to keep from going off the deep end, and thanks for being a dependable, consistently-reliable researcher. There are FEW of you!

    And it's ironic that here in Colorado, the cities of Denver and Pueblo are dropping their mask mandates while more and more of our 'talking heads' are sloughing the whole thing off as being relatively mild -- "Hey, it'll probably only (ONLY) put you in the hospital!" :psychoitc:
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2022
  14. CenterField

    CenterField Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Thanks. Regarding your last phrase, that of course is imprudent because people (and politicians) always forget that it's not just a question of hospitalizations and death but also a question of Long Covid and organ damage, both still possible with Omicron.

    This level of infectiousness and vaccine evasion though, may make it very difficult for any of us to avoid it. But it is certainly better to face it while vaccinated and boosted, than unvaccinated.
     
  15. LangleyMan

    LangleyMan Well-Known Member

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    The purpose of the vaccines is to keep people healthy and hopefully out of the hospital.
     
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  16. LangleyMan

    LangleyMan Well-Known Member

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    My niece's husband is unvaccinated, caught covid and lost 15 lbs. He was in according to my niece "sicker than a dog." Mama bear and kids are fully vaccinated—mama bear made sure of that!—had mild cases. Hubby now says he was stupid and will get vaccinated as soon as he can. Egads.
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2022
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  17. LangleyMan

    LangleyMan Well-Known Member

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    That a variant could be as infectious as BA.2 and lethal could rival what happened to aboriginal populations when Europeans brought their diseases to the Americas.

    Will we start distributing a Pfizer vaccine specifically for Omicron?
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2022
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  18. kreo

    kreo Well-Known Member

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    Democracy and human rights are healthier then dictatorship.
    Dictatorial methods never worked and never will be regardless of the goal you are pursuing.
     
  19. LangleyMan

    LangleyMan Well-Known Member

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    Trump failed to protect the people and paid the price.

    upload_2022-2-5_15-35-23.jpeg

    Just your luck it's President Joe Biden and not President Eric Adams.
     
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  20. CenterField

    CenterField Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Yes, Pfizer is saying they'll have an Omicron specific vaccine as early as March.
     
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  21. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    Yes the data from the COVIDsurg project suggest a longer term impact than previously thought
     
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  22. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    Our latest cases have mostly been omicron but some of the data this article quotes will be related to Delta cases

    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-02...d-vaccination-rates-in-icu-hospital/100800114
     
  23. LangleyMan

    LangleyMan Well-Known Member

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    I'd give that a :thumbsup: :thumbsup:.
     
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  24. kreo

    kreo Well-Known Member

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    Yea, I know, that is exactly what has happened.

    According to CDC
    -----------------------------------------
    Trump - 2020 - 385,470 deaths
    Biden - 2021 - 457,061 deaths


    At very least it is ZERO difference, but in fact there is much more under Biden.
    Why you people are trying to spread BS without even thinking.
     
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  25. Heartburn

    Heartburn Well-Known Member

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    What is the ultimate goal with this virus?
     

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