The Ten Commandments and God

They're NOT the 10 Suggestions?!!

Great OP BTW, Neutral...just dont let this go to your head.

 

How could it? I didn't come from my head did it?

 

You set yourself up on that one...but as a Bro, I wont go 'there!'

 

Ohhhh, I see now. So, basically you pick and choose which parts God actually told people to do.

Which commandment would be used to say that rape is wrong? Certainly not the first four. And obviously the Ten Commandments were NOT enough to stop rape as the Old Testament later on specifically commands people not to do it or else they will be punished.

No, but being put to death for not being a virgin on your wedding day is wrong, slick.

Wow, yeah, we don't have an absolute moral law written in a book, oh noooooo.

I never said that? What I was getting at is what you said makes no sense. Semantics is the study of words and basically you just said I am engaging in semantics.... so, I'm a bit confused by what you meant there.

And? I should honor them for that if I am routinely beaten, cursed at, and generally treated like (*)(*)(*)(*) simply because they birth me?

Yes, and the break that you take HAS to be on the Sabbath... or else you're put to death. What, God couldn't simply command people to not stress out so often and to take breaks?

And I'd be more than willing to die to protect another life, as I hold life to be precious. You, however, apparently would rather live your life perfectly sin free than lie to save another's life.

And I love the bolded part that automatically assumes that any lie is seen through right away.

Um, they aren't really relevant considering the United States military isn't the Third Reich and we abide by certain different rules than they did. Are you comparing the principles of our military with that of the Nazi military? Really?

"Therefore lying is never justified based on my subjective experiences!"

is basically what you're saying.

Wrong about WHAT? I made no statement other than saying I am not going to routinely indulge you by going completely off topic.

No, Neutral, what I'm saying is that a non-belief in God has nothing to do with any other beliefs that I have and it makes no logical sense to say "AHA, you have no moral standards because you are an atheist!"

We don't recognize the idea of sins, genius. That's the point. We still recognize morality, however.

Atheists can't do this...why?

Um, no, not really. It is a part of their JOB to lie to infiltrate. If they told the truth, they wouldn't be able to infiltrate or would simply be killed.

WAIT

So I just gave you an example and now you ADMIT that there is a valid and immoral reason to lie?

WHAT A SHOCKER

Why would my pride be affected from lying?

So, a loved one has never asked you a question about how you like something , such as a dinner or a haircut that you don't like, and you've never had the reason to tell a white lie as not to hurt them? That situation occurs all the time in life to basically everybody.

It isn't supported by the Ten Commandments but it isn't BARRED from the Ten Commandments either. In fact, there are specifically times in the Bible that God tells the Israelites to enslave a certain people and there are rules set up to govern slavery. So, obviously the Ten Commandments do NOT lead to slavery being wrong.

Where the hell does that come from? That isn't a Ten Commandment, genius.

 

Wow, a rant that completely avoids the question asked, I've come to expect that from you in the short time I've been here. Could or could not the Israelites reason through moral dilemmas? Originally you said they couldn't and now you're saying that they could.

And? We aren't a theocracy but rather a nation full of people with many different beliefs and we have set up our laws based on reason. Well... some of them at least...

Many of the Founding Fathers were not Christian but rather deists.

DISCLAIMER: NONE OF THOSE THINGS HAVE TO DO WITH THE CONVERSATION AND NOTHING TO DO WITH FOUNDING MORAL LAWS

Sure, but we don't get together as a group and decide that a certain book has to be taken as an ABSOLUTE guideline. We would not do so because there is always a change that we are flat out incorrect considering we are only human beings. I mean, is that what you expect us to do?

What part is about me?

 

Yes I am right, which is why we didn't need it carved in stone by God to realize it. Don't steal or kill are principals we never need to read the Bible to understand, which in my view makes the 10 commands irrelevant.

I did however need to read the Bible to understand that carving a statue is one of the 10 worst things I can do. I would have thought rape or child molestation would have made that list. Silly me.

 

Oh, so we treat our neighbors as we treat oursleves by enslaving them? Atheists have a wierd perception of reality is they think that is how people wish to be treated.

Do appreciate the genaric ramblings of atheist propoganda here, but in all that bile and excuses, all I see are bunch of whines and excuses - not a damb thing that makes ten commandments bad, not a damb thing that makes not following them lead to something good.

Just a whacked vision of atheism in which you guys think people WANT to be enslaved - therefore do onto others as you would HAVE THEM do onto you, the embodiment of that commandment, in order to justify being obstinate.

Even worse?

You have slave holders in your past - therefore, and obviously, you are a crappy human being and everything you hold dear is worthless - that is what you are saying about us, correct?

Jefferson? Often quoted by atheists.

Aristotle, Plato? Often quoted by atheists.

Their loft mentality did aboslutely nothing to reduce slavery.

Meanwhile, it was Christians who stood up to the practice. No doubt, the atheists of the time were calling as whacked out delusion idiots who believed and followed in a fake and immoral God who was just trying to impoverish good old slave owners.

People like modern atheists have always been around. The sheen of respectability inevitably wears off the malcontented.

 

Oh, so we treat our neighbors as we treat oursleves by enslaving them? Atheists have a wierd perception of reality is they think that is how people wish to be treated.

Do appreciate the genaric ramblings of atheist propoganda here, but in all that bile and excuses, all I see are bunch of whines and excuses - not a damb thing that makes ten commandments bad, not a damb thing that makes not following them lead to something good.

Just a whacked vision of atheism in which you guys think people WANT to be enslaved - therefore do onto others as you would HAVE THEM do onto you, the embodiment of that commandment, in order to justify being obstinate.

Even worse?

You have slave holders in your past - therefore, and obviously, you are a crappy human being and everything you hold dear is worthless - that is what you are saying about us, correct?

Jefferson? Often quoted by atheists.

Aristotle, Plato? Often quoted by atheists.

Their loft mentality did aboslutely nothing to reduce slavery.

Meanwhile, it was Christians who stood up to the practice. No doubt, the atheists of the time were calling as whacked out delusion idiots who believed and followed in a fake and immoral God who was just trying to impoverish good old slave owners.

People like modern atheists have always been around. The sheen of respectability inevitably wears off the malcontented.

 

Oh, it so incrediibly easy and obvious that ... atheists cannot do it.

You do understand, well, you'll never admit it, that if you are standing there telling someone how easy something is, any idiot can do it, they will inevitably turn to you and ask for your take.

And atheisms take on a set of standards to be held accountable to? To teach other people?

Nowhere, despite its apparent ease, to be found.

Apparently, despite the ease of doing that, it is FAR too hard for atheists to do it.

Oh, well, YOU have a standard that YOU follow and to hell with the rest of teh world?

The ten commandments are for everyone. Your personal standards? They are for you - so it probably best not to bring them to the table of a debate about what is best for others?

Do you see how standards, etc. always return to the self with atheists?

Do we understand why atheism is seen as self worship by professional theologians? We talk about everyone, you guys talk about you.

That violates the Second commandment BTW.

 

The Israelites certainly did and once again, slavery is PROMOTED in the Old Testament.

I never said that they were "bad" just imperfect and not absolute.

So, it was in the spirit of one of the commandments (which one), and yet for some reason slavery was promoted by God and acceptable to the Israelites? Uh, care to explain that one?

Nope, never said that.

And still I look down upon these people for owning slaves. People can still be right about certain things but terribly wrong about others.

If somebody is an atheist than they don't follow any gods.

And once again I would like to point out this absurdity:

You declared that lying was an absolute moral law and always wrong and then turned around and declared that police officers who lie in the line of duty do it for an honorable reason. So, which one is it?

 

Can I ask you a question that I want you to honestly answer? Would you be for or against implementing the Ten Commandments as absolute laws in this country that everybody must follow or else risk punishment?

 

??? I can almost hear your screaming in your writing. Maybe I hit a funny bone or something.

As to your first remark: "Oh, it so incrediibly easy and obvious that ... atheists cannot do it. "
I did a quick Google search and found that only 0.209% of incarcerated people are atheists. Put that is context with 10% (give or take) of the general population are "professed" atheists (I say professed because I think there are many closet atheists and the number could be higher). In short, atheists are extremely underrepresented in prison vs. the population. To spell out the final conclusion for you, your statement "Oh, it so incrediibly easy and obvious that ... atheists cannot do it." has been shown to be false; in fact atheists "do it" better then Christians on average.

http://www.holysmoke.org/icr-pri.htm

I think the reason atheists are underrepresented is simple. Education. This I think is the case for 2 reasons...
An educated person is less likely to be poor and therefore less likely to commit a crime. At the same time, an educated person is more likely to be atheist.

 

Agh, ANOTHER standard atheist question.

So, lete give the honest answer that we have to give over and over and over again to atheist who INSIST on telling us how screwed up out faith is.

Lets begin with intent.

Do you really think a bunch of guys were sitting around in a cave thinking, "Hmmm, I wonder if we can think up an ideology that will REALLY bugger atheists someday?" Oh,Oh, I know, "We can make up the concept of Hell just to twist those (*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)s!" HAHAHAHAHAHHA and other maniacal laughter.

Is that REALLY what you think?

Now what gets you into Hell? All of us? Sin.

You EARN your way into hell. Is being an atheist the ONLY sin you have ever done? Stack yourself up against the ten commandments and tell me you ONLY violated the first one. Go ahead - be as honest as you ask others to be.

So, if its the wages of sin that condemn us to hell, well, as I said, we Christains are NOT free of sin. Thankfully we have this little thing called grace - which allows up to acknowledge in humbleness and seek repentence. That essentially wipes the slate clean - allows us to acknowledge our sin.

What do atheists do when they fal short of those standards? Which are alternately OBVIOUSLY theirs, but OBVIOUSLY not theirs? What do you do when YOU sin? How do YOU get out from under it?

Because is SIN that gets our butts tossed into hell - not JUST being an atheist. Being an atheist, as we see, is avoiding the the sins you commit. Indeed, Rule #2 sheds some light on that predicament does it not?

It isn't atheism that condemns you to hell - its you. Just like it is EVERYONE else who find themselves condemed to hell, no one to blame but them. Is that clear and honest enough for you?

 

There are good (non religious) reasons why we all agree to not murder.

No, the 10 commandments are not for everyone. They are for Christians and Jews. So what say you? To hell with all the Janes, Hindus Muslims, Scientologists, and the like?

Many Theologians are atheists (I've personally met 2 and they were both non-believers). It tends to happen when you learn about religions other then your own.

 

I just skimmed through this post and of course you don't even answer the question but ONCE AGAIN just rant against atheists. Is it that hard for you to say yes or no to a question?

 

And this is ANOTHER standard atheist bit of propoganda. You did not do an internet search, you went to an atheist web site to feed your own view of yourself.

Lets look shall we?

http://www.holysmoke.org/icr-pri.htm

Unfortuantely, when we look at the raw data, we see that it amounts to just over 80% of the US population responding to the survey. Guess what the others are? Non-religious. i.e. atheists.

So on one hand, atheists want to include Buddhists and Einstein who are NOT atheists - far from it - but do not want to inlcude prisoners who are CLEARLY atheists because they categorized themselves as non-religious rather than straight up atheist?

Guess what slick non-religious means that ain't us.

Really, it'd be nice to see an atheist come up with some original thinking from time to time - all the sheeple get annoying.

 

Agh, no, the question is answered. Just not the way you want it to be.

Is this difficult? Does the idea of Christians not conforming to your silly prejudices us of really bother you?

Maybe you should read ANYTHING about our faith, rather than just skim in and remain ignorant.

Is it hard for you to tolerate a different opinion or point of view?

If you want your precious atheism to remain unblemished then please go to www.agreewitheverythingisay.com

You won't have to worry about people actually telling you about their faith, and you can continue to spew standard and deliberate atheist misinterpretations of our faith.

Just don;t expect to be treated with respect by those you deliberately malign and whose responses, by your own admission, you fail to read.

Kind of hard to convince an atheist who already knows everything that he is wrong. Well, you are - deal with it.

Notice how we are now not discussing the ten commandments? We need these other bait and switch antics from our serial victims to be tossed in instead

 

Your reasoning skills make you the perfect candidate for an "obedient" follower of the church. But... No, I don't think people dreamed up hell to one day anger an atheist. They come up with it to keep people like yourself fearful and obedient. Atheists just called them out on it. It's really not that complicated.

 

If you'd like to refute the data, please do so. Otherwise my point that atheists are better citizens (on average) holds.

If you can only simply say NO! all the time you might want to start asking if your even believe yourself.

 

Of course, its clear you have not read the Bible.

Let me put it to you this way, when preparing young men for battle I am up front with them - some of them are going to die. Is that fear manipulating them? Does everything else now not matter? Honor? Hard work? Team work? Victory? Service? Selflessness? Bravery?

Apparently, they do not when atheists engage their ... logic.

Hell is real. Sorry brother.

Now, use your atheist proximity search and see how many time the Bible says some key words:

Love: 686

Compassion: 82

God: 3995

Faith: 485

Wisdom: 219

Kind: 250

Honor: 211

Forgive/en: 176

Hell: 15

Clearly, in your studious examination of the Bible, you concluded that the center of our religion was not God - but hell. And you ignore everything else, so, we should to!

We are Christians, not atheists looking for an excuse to crap on people - which is all hell appears to be to the lot of you. If you doubt it, then why avoid all the rest of that to focus on hell?

 

I just provided you with the data. Look at it yourself.

I;ve done this silly debate with about 50 of your peers and know damb well what the data says.

Here it is again. Exactly the same result WITH a nice chart, in ANOTHER country!

http://thoughtfulfaith.wordpress.com/2010/03/12/atheists-in-prison/

Agh, yeah, clearly I fear the data.

Now, whose fault is it that one atheist after another takes these deliberately scoped results and put their faith in it time and time again? You;d think one of you would be able to write the web site you stole it off of and tell them to stop lying? Nope.

 

No, it simply wasn't. Your refusal to answer a simple question with a simple answer and instead rant against atheists has granted me some insight into your personality. At no point in your confusing and tainted rant could anybody find an answer to the question I posed to you.

 

And this. At no point have I attacked Christians in any way, shape, or form. However, you are an incredible hypocrite considering that EVERY single post of yours contains an insult of atheists. What an absurdity.

 

So you counter with a site called "Thoughtful Faith....thinking about God".
Back to those reasoning skills again. Sigh, typical non-thinker.

At best we've arrived at a tie. Maybe I'll look up another source if I care enough to bother.

 

No, it was answered. Just not the way you want - and now you are resorting to spurious and silly accusations - as atheists such as yourself always do.

Here let me sum up your arguement for you:



So, if you are unable to find the answer as to sin gets people sent to hell ... well, my advice would be to stop doing this:



You are just wrong, and unable emotionally to acknowledge that your victim mentality regarding hell is flawed. No my problem.