The U.S. Already Soaks the Rich In 2021 the richest 1% paid 45.8% of income taxes, up from..

First of all, it happens all the time. Some life saving treatments cost millions. You must draw the line somewhere, and the government does just that under Obamacare. If we exhausted all means, resources and expense to save every life it would cost more lives due to other deprivations. The medical industry would be able to afford far greater care if people weren't paying for the treatment of others, and if people who currently aren't paying paid for their own care. Capitalism works best. Healthcare was essentially socialized back in the mid 1960's. Ever since then it has slowly come under greater stress until present day. Socialism have been a demonstrated failure time and time again everywhere it has been tried. Capitalism works best, why try anything else? Especially something which has been a proven failure for very well understood reasons.

 

No, I am the one offering the red pills to you.

No, that is a bald fabrication on your part. I have identified the most relevant privileges.

Garbage. I have identified the relevant facts that prove I am correct.

That is false. I provide the relevant facts.

Which is false.

<sigh> "Just get a job, save up your money, and buy some slaves of your own! Problem solved!"

I have explained how repeatedly, in clear, simple, grammatical English. You just choose not to know the relevant facts.

Facts you cannot refute.

 

you haven't proffered any facts. you make up claims that you cannot back up. You claim the rich have some sort of unfair "breaks" or "privilege". It's complete bullshit. You want to demonize those better off than you so you can justify the government taking more and more from them. You don't have any legitimate grievances against those who earn more than you or even those who inherited wealth.

Some is rich
some is poor
that's the way the world is
but I don't believe in laying back and saying how bad your luck is

John Graham Mellor

 

The same ones that only cost thousands in India...?

Such a mystery.

To you, that is.

What about if monopoly rent collection privileges weren't increasing prices by two or even three orders of magnitude?

I guess that must explain why the USA pays far more for health care than any other country, and has by far the worst outcomes in the OECD...

You mean monopolies?

 

See's discrimination and privilege everywhere he looks. Take off the red tinted glasses. How about we just narrow it down to you rather than trying to discuss broad sweeping accusations all over the spectrum. Can't go passed skin deep because you follow with even more unsupported spread of blanket statements as if everyone should immediately comprehend and see how it is you have been discriminated against by the government. By and large VERY VERY few Americans discriminate. As for privilege, you would have to clearly support your opinion the rich got rich due to hidden privileges.

 

That is just another bald falsehood from you.

I have backed them up and you know it.

And I have specifically identified the most important ones: land titles, IP monopolies and bank licenses.

You cannot refute even one word of it.

That is a fabrication.

Because it is government that is so exorbitantly subsidizing them at the expense of honest working people (might not include you).

See? You have to carefully change the subject to avoid mentioning the only ones I have actually written about: owners of privileges such as those identified above.

 

Let me try to help you communicate effectively. Lets just take one specific thing you just threw out there assuming all would understand you and agree. What do you mean by "monopoly rent collection privileges"? This isn't something your audience has been indoctrinated with. Is this something which occurs in the US or are you from a different country?

 

no you haven't. you have stereotyped wealthy people and claim they engage in injustice

PROVE IT.

 

Because that's where they are.

Like turtledude, you cannot refute a single sentence I have written, so you have to change the subject to me personally. I get it.

I haven't mentioned myself personally. It is you who have no choice but to change the subject to me to try to avoid the facts.

There is nothing hidden about land titles, IP monopolies and bank licenses. The relevant economic principles may not be widely known, but I have been explaining them where relevant, and will do so more if you ask appropriate questions instead of reflexively hurling groundless personal insults.

 

Legally enforced monopolies that enable extraction of rents: returns obtained by exercising legal control over others' access to economic opportunity. Privileges are legal entitlements to benefit from the abrogation of others' rights without making just compensation. There are lots of different privileges, but from the perspective of taxation, the most relevant and important ones are fungible.

I agree the key concepts are neither obvious nor widely known. Thank you for asking.

It occurs in all countries to varying degrees.

 

I certainly have.

No, you have merely falsely claimed I did that. I have specifically identified the privileged, not the wealthy, as appropriate objects of increased taxation because they benefit from institutionalized injustice.

I have. Read what I write, and try to understand it, instead of just constantly hurling groundless personal insults.

 

Bingo. You refuse to see any fact that disproves your false and evil beliefs. You refuse to see the greed of the richest, greediest people who have ever lived.

There are few acts a human being can commit that are more profoundly evil than accusing those who oppose injustice of envy for those who profit from it.

 

what facts: doing well is not injustice. failing and blaming others--now that is unjust

 

Do you drive on roads, fly in airplanes, use medicare or medi aid , think the country requires a defense force, or national counter terrorism and law enforcement, an agency to issue passports and engage in international relations, ever been to a national park, want national safety standards for you food a household items? The list goes on. Now you could if you want not pay any Federal taxes. Hell you could choose not to have a federal government at all! Just a President, a Congress and a Senate (with no budget).

The thing is though doing that doesn't solve the problem. All it does is shift the responsibility one level down to the States - and then you have to pay taxes to them for all the 'stuff' listed above (and more)! Of course if you do that your also likely to end up with 50 separate agencies doing what the Feds used to do. What could possibly go wrong?

At that point though what you have is also fifty separate nations pretending to be one country.

[/QUOTE]Why? Why should the productive have to pay the same rate of tax on assets whose value they have created themselves as the privileged pay on assets whose value is created by government and the community? Why should the tax system force the productive to subsidize the privileged?[/QUOTE]

1) Because the vast majority of Americans are 'productive' i.e. someone pays for their labor. Or are you suggesting that wage and salary earners aren't 'productive', that their labor has no value. If so I'm sure it will be news to them (and their employers who are wasting good money paying them).

2) The rest? That's not the argument. The argument is that all forms of income including unrealized capital gains etc should be taxed (more or less equally) because firstly in removes distortions in investment decisions and secondly. Who do you say are the privileged? Because in economic terms at the moment its anyone who derives more of their income and wealth from investments than they do from their labor because such people are taxed less on their income/wealth than wage and salary earners are. The idea is to make wealthier individuals pay as much tax (as a % of their total annualized wealth) as poor Americans do. Not more. Just the same. Because at the moment they are not.

If American (A) has ten million in an investment portfolio and derives income from it (and has a competent tax advisor) and American B earns 70K a year as a salary? American A will pay less tax as a % of their assets than (B) does. Its that simple.

 

How does them paying a HIGHLY disproportionate share of the taxes prevent the poor from accumulating wealth? How come I was able to do so in spite of all these evil rich/high earners who want to keep everyone else poor?

 

Does a person have a claim to unlimited resources taken from others to pay for their medical treatment? Do we have an obligation to provide such care no matter the cost for every human being?

 

We are talking FEDERAL taxation, you know the FEDERAL office Biden is running for and will have a say in tax rates, and the vast majority of taxes individual citizens pay are income taxes and when Biden and the Dems make their specious statements they are talking income taxes.

False as the latest numbers show they in fact barely pay anything and when you add in the EITC and they had a progressively negative income meaning they make money off the tax system.

Bottom 50% 10.4% of income 2.3% of taxes 3.4% rate
Between bottom half and top 25% 17.5% of income 8.4% of taxes 7.2% rate
Top 25% to 10% 19.5% of income 13.4% of taxes 10.3% rate
Top 10% to 5% 10.6% of income 10.2% of taxes 14.3% rate
Top 5% to 1% 15.7% of income 19.9% of taxes 18.9% rate
And top 1% 26.3% of income 45.8% of taxes 25.9% rate

Actual government subsidies, not normal business expensing on taxes, false most goes to individual payments on the lower income levels.

It benefits the government and punishes anyone holding capital, it deletes the values of EVERYONE's investments and dollars.

 

Yes the latest reporting period.

When you have next years numbers post them I have seen NO decrease in the rates the higher earners are paying and Biden is claiming what they are paying NOW is not a fair share.

This is not about a tax rate increase it is about the share of taxes paid by each group and whether the high earners are paying their fair share which the left claims they are not.

In short just give me the target we should be shooting for and where Biden has said he hope the high earners pay less than the latest reported numbers.

 

Problem is all you seem to have are semantics.

Actually most of it IS in production and increasing value which is how it grows along with the wage and salary received from various jobs held. What's your point, they STILL pay those rates on their incomes, the largest tax BY FAR citizens pay to the federal government which Biden and the Dems say they are not paying a large enough share.

Do you think he does not work at managing his assets and those the others he manages, he just goofs off all day long playing golf or watch his latest series on TV and money just rolls in the door?

Well then go tell that to Biden and the Dems and the MSM and the rest of the left who keep making it the question by making the factual assertion they are NOT paying their fair share, one must know what IS that fair share to claim they are not paying it.

How about you?

Yes the semantics as I noted..........

Go argue with the White House

......President Biden’s tax plan would build on this progress with reforms that will finally make the wealthiest Americans pay their fair share. The President’s Budget:

Requires Billionaires to Pay at Least 25 Percent of Income in Taxes.....

....As a result, many of these wealthy Americans are able pay an average income tax rate...
https://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/brie...n's tax plan would,Percent of Income in Taxes.

 

thread winner. Biden's a pimp who panders to the basest human emotions such as class envy. He also is a lying POS-billionaires pay three times the percentage that senile Joe claimed in the state of the union.

 

You>> Is it really necessary to list every single rort used by the wealthy in the US to minimize taxable income that are NOT available to the less well off?

Me>> And yet they STILL pay over 80% of income taxes at over 25% rate to just the federal government. How much more should they pay?

What Reagan did, then what Gingrich/Kasich did, then what Bush/Reps did we agree. And when each did the tax burden shifted more to the higher earners while millions at the bottom were taken off entirely.

Because wealth and income are two entirely different matters one which we tax one which we do not.

OK what if in the next tax year the value of the company or the stock one owns goes down and is worth less capital. Do they get an immediate refundable credit. I mean is the government on both sides of the investment now or just the profit side? What if the federal government takes in less revenue at your 24% rate that say 21% or even 15%, would agree that is where the rate should be set or is it more about sticking it to the investor for some strange reason? Half the country pays less than a 3.4% effective income tax rate, at the current Capgains rate the highest earners are already paying a HIGHLY disproportionate share of the tax burden.

What do you do about small business then? Most individuals are already on a simple standard deduction. Of course with refundable credits and high standard deductions and current child credits the bottom half already pay virtually nothing in income taxes.

All forms of income are not the same nor have the same liquidity or under the same risk and fluctuations. Why this desire to force them all into one big pigeon hole?

I'm all for simplifying the tax code just not using it to satisfy envy of the higher earners.

 

No. Not even close. Not even if you restrict it to Federal taxation. The median income in the U.S. is about $37,585. This means the income tax rate is less than the Social Security tax rate. I'm not impressed by your statement. And then you add silly partisan stuff as if I give a damn about Biden or Trump.

Once again income taxes are not all taxes. Is this concept really that difficult to understand?

I was not including business expensing.

And still, most subsidies go to the top.

No, that's not how it works. If I own the means to production, the price of my products go up along with rising pricing. I am unaffected. I also get to purchase labor cheaper and more of it because I get the money first. This is why unemployment remains lower, even now. However those who are unable to directly invest into production must either pay a percentage to an investment firm for the privilege, or must sit their money in a bank where it quickly becomes devalued.

 

Then stop talking wealth this is about INCOME taxes and whether the rates of taxation against income is FAIR.

When the amendment to do so gets passed by the Congress let me know.

Where has it worked. 11 European countries attempted one including France, how many retained it?

And there you go again with the tax wealth canard. And a total non-sequitur.

Our taxation is NOT BASED ON WEALTH and would be folly to do so and your wealth is your PROPERTY and is protected under the Constitution. Once something is your property such as your WEALTH the government cannot deprive you of it without just cause and just compensation. You OWE your income tax as you earn it, one reason there is withholding and pre-paying before the annual reporting date. The government gets it and you have to file against what they got to see if you overpaid.

 

OK get a job that is worth it. Increase the value of your labor. MY first jobs didn't and I certainly didn't expect YOU to give me part of YOUR paycheck.