The war between the US and Europe.

In the years I have been posting here, I have noticed a recurring theme of antagonism towards Europe in general, and the UK in particular, from a group of American posters. This in its turn generates a critical attitude from European and antipodean posters - the end result being little constructive debate when matters concerning American and European sociology are discussed.

When I was travelling across the US, I did not encounter any outright hostility towards the country of my birth. And I certainly did not feel any hostility towards Americans or their society. I found most Americans to be friendly, polite, and generous.

However, most Americans I met had a strangely bipolar attitude to the UK. One the one hand they complimented me on my speech and manners (I was a young teen at the time,) and those very few who had travelled to my country were fulsome in their praise of the history, manners, and customs of the British. But, amongst the rest, there was a sort of subliminal deprecation of all things British. Like anything American was considered intrinsically better.

What I am attempting to do in this post is examine American attitudes towards Europe in general, and Great Britain in particular. I am not attempting to blame one side or the other - as with most such situations there is probably plenty of blame to go around. I think, in view of the many acerbic exchanges between Americans one one side, and Europeans (and Australians and New Zealanders) on the other, it is probably worth investigating the reasons.

Perhaps we may begin by examining the American complaints about Europe and Europeans, before the **** starts flying back and forth?

 

I am surprised that you have such a belief in reasonable discussion.

 

LOL, I know it flies in the face of all reasonable expectation - but I am ever the optimist.

Alexander Pope

 

And, so, how does one die?

 

The feelings towards the British and Europeans has been improving ever since the Revolution. If you want to see bad feelings towards the British read some of the writings about all the taxes you were imposing on us.

When you traveled across America I'm sure no one spit in your face. That is a vast improvement from earlier times.

 

We read the American Declaration of Independence at school, so I have some idea.

The taxes were not imposed by Englishmen upon Americans (there was no such thing as an American at that time,) but by the Crown upon its subjects. They were Englishmen who rebelled, and committed high treason.

 

That very statement is why many Americans view the Brits as pompous and arrogant. Too bad you guys weren't good enough to fend off a few rebels I guess hehe.

Kinda whooped up on ya in 1812 also.

 

Grumpydog likes to think he is British sometimes. Watches British and New Zealand cats and forgets he is dog for a while.

 

The little family unpleasantness of 1775 was a civil war which pitted Englishmen against Englishmen - there was no 'us and them' until the United States was formed. English colonists in the Americas did not want to pay taxes, and committed high treason, involving allying with an enemy of Britain. We all know the outcome, and Sir John Harrington put it well when he said -

Treason doth never prosper,
What's the reason?
For if it prosper,
None dare call it treason.

Hmmm, 230 years on, and you still haven't learnt to speak intelligible English!

As for the War of 1812 - the USA declared it upon Great Britain, and failed to achieve a single aim, nor did it gain a square inch of territory. It attempted to invade Canada three times with signal failure, and suffered its national capital burnt. By no metric could any of that be deemed a victory. It was a stupid war fought for stupid, nationalistic reasons, and neither side won anything.

 

I'd say it is a was love/hate relationship.

On one hand most of us "Yanks" love Doctor Who, Monty Python, James Bond and other British shows and movies.

On the other hand most of us sided with the IRA in getting you Brits out of Ireland.

We seem to love the royalty there as much as you do, but hate our current president for bowing to any royalty.

We trust your media over ours in giving us the straight story on things, but if the same media (BBC or whatnot) reports an anything Catholic it is rejected and even laughed at.

Though, when the wife and I retire, our main goal is to come to visit Europe, by starting in Ireland, and working our way all the to Italy. Hitting the capitals of Ireland, Britain, France, Germany, Poland and ending up in Rome. (Though with the way the world is presently, I think reversing the trip so we leave from a Brit airport back to the states would be safer).

 

Thank you for that thoughtful and interesting insight into the relationship. One of the many problems in the trans-Atlantic relationship is ignorance, and a lack of personal contact, on both sides of the pond.

Many Brits refer to your countrymen as 'the Yanks' in a generally derogatory sense, and while they have all manner of stereotypes about Americans, few have ever had a conversation with one. My family have never been like that, but when I first went to the US, I was quite young (14) and I had a few misconceptions about your society. These were dispelled in the nicest possible way, and I came away with a very high opinion of the American people.

I am studying in Australia at the present, but when you retire, and you and your wife decide to visit Britain, I hope I will be home to show you some aspects of this land and society, which most American tourists will never see from the windows of a tourist coach. I was afforded that privilege in your fair land.

 

It did stop the British from raiding our ships which was kind of the main goal. You couldn't even take one lousy fort after days of continuous naval bombardment and your main army attacking it. The ragtag group down in Louisiana also went up against your regulars and pushed them back into the sea like the little jellyfish they were.

 

LOL, the Battle of New Orleans was as pointless as the whole War of 1812 (it was fought after the armistice was signed) but I am not going to play your little partisan game.

Generals Andrew Jackson, William Carroll, John Coffee, Jean Lafitte, and Danial Patterson waged a fierce battle and won a brilliant victory over a numerically superior Scottish regiment - some of the best troops in the world, with very few American losses. The Americans deserved every ounce of credit attributed to their victory. Brave men fell on both sides, and the tragedy is compounded by the fact that the battle need not have been fought at all. But courage and valour know no national boundaries.

 

We took the "Yank" thing and wear it proudly. I guess that's one of the truly American things here, is to take derogatory words pointed at us, and turn them into things of pride. As it does seem we love to be hated, to the point that if we're not hated, we're not American enough lol!

You mention being over here once before. I have had the pleasure of speaking to others from Europe that have visited here, and the one remark or first impression I find strange is the width of our roads. More than once I have heard visitors remark how wide our roads are. I was wondering if you had gotten the same impression.

As for taking the tour bus. I don't know if we'd go that route. I want to see some places and maybe even stay over night next to the site of the Battle of Hastening, since I am a descendant of one of the Knights Hospitaller that fraught/treated in that battle. The last thing I want is to spend the money to go over there, and all I get to do is look out a window as the bus goes by such sites.

As for seeing some sites from your guiding, that would be great, but we're looking at at least another 20 years before this happens, so I guess we have time to become friends

 

I personally despise the whole island of Great Britain. While I do not hold every British individual in disdain, I detest British culture and believe it should be the tradition and culture of all Americans to wish the whole of Great Britain to sink into the sea. We should have never been manipulated and maneuvered into an alliance with you after the War for Independence and I lay much of the blame for the destruction of Western civilization at the feet of your people. The annihilation of Europe, Germany, and the survival of Communism beyond 1943 is in many respects your doing. Europe may yet resist its Islamifications but I don't believe the British will, nor do I have any sympathy for their fate. The English were the historic enemy of American liberty and should have remained such.

 

Well I would love to get into a debate about the poor performance generally of the British Army but I will concede your point and save that for another day.

 

It's not just British, but all Europeans especially the French.

WWI - 320,518 Dead and wounded Americans.

22 years later...

WWII - 1,076,245 and an additional 30,314 missing.

Myself, My Mom's father died in 1925 from the results of a German Mustard Gas attack in France. My Uncle is in Cambridge American Cemetery when his bomber made it back from Schweinfurt, but he didn't, killed by an attacking German plane. There's over a million American families with stories just like mine. It doesn't take much to ramp up the resentment.

 

I especially hate the French also. They criticize us for our brutality when they have things like the Algerian War and The Terror on the record. Most of Europe is no better in the history department either. Every time they open their mouth to criticize America it makes me cringe.

 

Please remind us why the British are responsible for all of this?

 

Appreciated!

England

 

Just a guess but maybe cause you were getting your butt kicked and needed to be bailed out?

 

I'm not British.

 

That's good to know. I will replace "you", with "them" in my previous statement

 

Terrible grammar.

 

Yes and i'm a dual major in college. Grammar has always been horrible for me and I need to have the writing center look over every paper I ever submit. No matter how many writing classes I take I just can't register proper grammar in my brain.