There is no right to have an abortion

Can you provide more background (without breaking confidences)? If you are in the trenches in a position to counsel pregnant women who are taking recreational drugs, they must have some idea that they need help (or else they would not be listening to you at all). I assume you have shown them how the drugs are likely to affect the baby. Do they think that won't happen to their baby? Are they hoping the drugs will spontaneously abort the fetus so they will not be condemned by the church for having an abortion?

 

Pro-choicers will say the solution is to abort them.

 

This one would.....although unlike Anti-Choicers I defend her right to choose.

 

Just because you spout nonsense, does not make that nonsense true. It does not follow (non sequitur fallacy) that using drugs while pregnant is the same as abortion. This is a false dichotomy.

There is a huge difference between a Fetus that will go on to become a human an one that will not.

In one case the assault results in a harmed human. In the other case it does not.

Interesting try , but fallacy all the same.

As per above, this is not the only difference.

In one case you have a living human that is harmed. In the other case you do not because there never was a living human.

 

Obviously believe your right to protect the fetus is more important than the woman's free will, and her right to body autonomy. Why not just throw her in a van, lock her in a cellar where she cannot get to her drug dealer, feed her and take care of her until she gives birth? Oh, that's right... That's KIDNAPPING, so DON'T DO IT.

 

So your solution to this suffering is to hope the irresponsible, apathetic drug user makes a certain choice? Somehow, I think the suffering of babies will continue to rise under that theory.

 

Her right to body autonomy must not be the high principle that you claim, as it is already restricted by law after viability. The law is restricting her body autonomy for something that is not even a person. How does that make sense?

 

So you want to force women to have abortions.....Nope, I believe in choice. Without choice there is ONLY force.

 

The law offers protection for a viable fetus.

There doesn't have to be a law, it was a compromise.

There doesn't have to be a law because mentally stable women don't go through 8 months of the joys of pregnancy just for the thrill of having an abortion.

And a mentally unstable woman would get treatment for her illness and doctors wouldn't perform a late term abortion unless it was for her health.

 

Both are acts that harm a fetus.

If all harmful acts toward a fetus, besides abortion, are prohibited, then you are going to have situations in which if the mother doesn't abort by viability, then she would be facing criminal charges. It would be a race to abort to avoid criminal charges. That sounds right to you? I don't think so. I think the law must make all acts toward a fetus legal if abortion is legal (which is basically how it is now). If the law says that these other harmful acts toward a fetus are illegal, then abortion must be illegal as well.

You are basically saying it is possible to harm a person before they were born, but the legal/moral consequences of that harmful act can be avoided if one aborts the harmed fetus in time. And I'm the one talking nonsense?

 

And most of the country supports force being used to prevent women from having an abortion.

 

Bodily autonomy must not be a high principle if it can be restricted for all because some are mentally unstable. Imagine if we applied that logic to our other rights.

Why should the law protect a viable fetus if it's not a person? I thought all laws were to protect people?

 

It is as simple as general apathy.

 

I don't think so. A majority supports keeping RvW. A majority favors abortion rights at least under some circumstances. A majority has positive feelings about Planned Parenthood in spite of the multiple attacks on them. I think a huge majority would object to applying physical force to keep women from having an abortion.

 

Where? When? Who?

All the polls I've seen show MOST Americans want abortion legal.


S H O W me YOUR poll saying "most of the country" want women incarcerated in stock pens and FORCED to give birth...where is it????

 

The law is force, and it already prevents women from having an abortion during some of the pregnancy. I point that out every time someone tries to paint me as some monster who wants to use force to prevent an abortion. Again, who doesn't? Who supports legal abortion to the day before birth?

 

I support no regulations on abortion. Women do not voluntarily choose abortion the day before birth, so there is no reason to regulate it. The law is very ineffective as a force against abortion. Read a history book on that.

 

No you are confused, as everyone loses their bodily autonomy after about week 24.

So your position is that the law of the land isn't based on principles, but on superfluous "throwing of bones". That's a good way to ensure a population loses respect for your legal system.

It isn't murder, but it's bad.

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That's strange because I remember this Gosnell guy who was performing late abortions. And force was used against him.

 

The law uses force to prevent or respond to women having an abortion. Ask Gosnell if force was used against him. So the law is already using force to prevent abortion, and guess what, no women are incarcerated in stock pens to do it.

 

Ever hear of Roe v Wade? That's all the right women need, pal.

 

Wrong.

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I think he means in principle. If all discussion on principle ended after a law were on the books, we would have a lot more bad laws than Roe.

 

Dude. Please show me the current law that requires that all women receive MANDATORY drug tests while pregnant. Hell prenatal care is not even mandatory.

 

I didn't say the tests were reported to law enforcement. But if you are an OB, or doctor birthing a child, and you don't even bother to see if the mother is on drugs, then you aren't doing your job. You have to be ready to care for a child born addicted to crack. It would be very irresponsible to just wait and see after birth. You could end up killing the baby.

 

He was not performing late abortions. He was inducing labor and killing, murdering, the born infants.