There is no right to have an abortion

Oh....so you are saying there are optional drug tests if the doctor sees a need for it. Yeah....that's quite a different thing.

 

I thought he just did that to the ones he failed to abort. Are you saying there is no force behind state restrictions on abortion in the 3rd trimester?

 

I think restricting doctors from reporting failed drug tests of pregnant women who intend to birth their child is child endangerment, whether or not the woman consented to the test. It is asking the doctor to do something immoral, and ignore a behavior that is certain to cause a young child much suffering.

 

Then report them. Fine. Have the women brought in an offered counseling or residential treatment. OK. But I know you want to use this as the basis for a claim that now we should make abortion illegal and that will never fly.

 

Agreed ...

I think a woman should abort as soon as possible. The longer she waits the more similar to a human a fetus becomes. At roughly 24 weeks (when significant brain function can be detected) - it becomes very difficult to argue that the fetus is not a human.

You are committing a logical fallacy here - false dichotomy. This does not mean that we should not make all acts towards the fetus legal, it just means that your argument is bad.

1) It depends on what stage of pregnancy. Different arguments can be made at different stages.

2) There is a difference between harm to a fetus which stops the process of human creation, and harm to a fetus which has a good possibility of completing that process.

If one defines "Person" as a fetus after week 24 then, of course it is possible to harm a Person prior to being born.

If one aborts the fetus prior to it turning into a Person then, a Person is not harmed because no Person exists.

It all depends on how "Personhood" is defined.

 

No, but it is unethical to force women to take drug tests and then reveal their medical records.

 

Science can determine that the fetus is sentient in the third trimester (and that is a line based on the physical development of the fetus). Before that point you have ONE sentient being, and after that point you could argue that there is a sentient being whose rights should be balanced against those of the pregnant woman.

I am beginning to suspect that you were dishonest with us about your concern for these women. If you are really in a position to counsel these women you have the opportunity to save them, and those potentially damaged babies-to-be if you are honest with them about the options that they have. I suspect it is more likely (if you are in a counseling position at all) you are actively or passively manipulating them away from the option of abortion even if they refuse to give up the drugs.

 

Why would I convince a woman to abort a baby, even if it was going to suffer for the first few weeks or months of birth, or even with a permanent disability? If someone gave me that choice: (1) you will suffer for a few weeks or months, and even possibly have a permanent disability, or (2) we can just kill you now and you can avoid that, choosing (1) would be a no-brainer.

 

Polls say that people want both: abortion to be legal, and illegal, at different stages of pregnancy. Which means that at some point in the pregnancy, people want women and/or doctors punished for seeking abortion.

 

Unless harm or death is imminent to another person, which it is if a mother is using meth every day of the pregnancy.

 

Well , you clearly want to ignore what was in the post of mine you quoted but I'll address your one comment.

People do NOT want abortion to be legal and illegal ...it can't be at the same time.

The polls show that most Americans, whether they approve of abortion or not , want it to remain legal.....with late term restrictions...

 

Harm and /or risk of death are present in every pregnancy so the woman has every right to kill the fetus.


A fetus, however, is not a person.

 

Meaning illegal.

 

No late term abortions are legal if they are for the life/health of the woman or the fetus.

 

Like if the woman throws a tantrum and threatens to kill herself if they don't allow her to get an abortion (mental health).

 

No, first her mental health would be evaluated. A person threatening suicide would be put under a suicide watch. Doctors don't do an abortion under threats.

 

That is a bar not needed to hurdle.

http://www.conceiveeasy.com/get-pregnant/when-does-the-fetus-become-a-baby/

 

From your link :


"" The embryo is then called the fetus until the stage of birth."""

OOOOOPS!
Please do tell all your Anti-Choice friends that it is a fetus and not a baby.


Life can star whenever it wants...that doesn't mean a woman can't end the life of the FETUS.....

 

I am pro choice. Pro choice that the baby survives the whims of the mother.

 

That makes no sense whatsoever.


That's OK, I can understand your embarrassment at finding your own link refers to a fetus as a fetus and NOT a "baby"

 

When you lie about me, why whine if you get it back?

 

And, of course, you can't point out where I lied about you.......

And you can't show where I "whined".....because I didn't. I think you may have a strong case of "projection".


Thank you for providing a link that shows a fetus is called a fetus until it's born.

 

What did you claim about me?

You lied. There is no way I am embarrassed.

Just stop lying.

 

Because that law is an utter violation of the equal protection clause and should be struck down.