'There won't be a Palestinian state within Israel'

Discussion in 'Middle East' started by HBendor, Jan 7, 2013.

  1. HBendor

    HBendor New Member

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  2. HBendor

    HBendor New Member

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    SOME MIDDLE EAST 'LEVITY;

    For video
    http://youtu.be/YzyRr9K8m1Y


    In Zoabi Video, Lieberman Sings in Arabic
    The Balad party's election video features a Middle Eastern version of
    Hatikva.
    By Gil Ronen Arutz 7 First Publish: 12/29/2012, 8:15 PM
    http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/163669

    The Arab Balad party's election video is an animated clip showing Foreign
    Minister Avigdor Lieberman and several nationalist MKs singing Hatikva in to
    a Middle Eastern tune.


    In the clip, Lieberman explains that he was the one who proposed a law
    requiring citizens to pledge allegiance to the state of Israel in order to
    be eligible for an ID card. He then announces that he has now become
    convinced that the tune of Hatikva – Israel's national anthem – should be
    changed so that Arabs feel comfortable singing it as well.

    The well-executed clip follows, with MKs Aryeh Eldad, Danny Danon, Ofir
    Akunis and Michael Ben-Ari "singing" accompanying Lieberman singing Hatikva.

    It ends with a narrator asking: "Did you laugh? But the situation is not
    funny. Who can prevent these laws? Vote Balad."

    Some Arabs have complained that they cannot identify with the anthem, which
    appeals to the "Jewish heart" and "an eye watching Zion," as well as "the
    2,000-year-old hope, to be a free nation in our country – the Land of Zion
    and Jerusalem."

    Balad's founder, Azmi Bishara, escaped Israel after a Shin Bet investigation
    found that he had assisted Hizbullah in selecting targets to bomb during the
    Second Lebanon War. Current Balad MK Hanin Zoabi has been disqualified from
    running for the 19th Knesset, but the High Court may overturn the
    disqualification.

    --------------------------------------------
    IMRA - Independent Media Review and Analysis
    Website: www.imra.org.il
     
  3. HBendor

    HBendor New Member

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    From Prof. S. Plaut of Haifa Univeristy

    Onward and Upwards goes the Bennett Juggernaut!

    ~By Steven Plaut


    Without a doubt, the most exciting political development in Israel in
    decades has been the sudden and unexpected brilliant success of the
    Bayit Yehudi (Jewish Home) party of Naftali Bennett. The shy and
    straight-talking Bennett, who built a highly-successful high-tech
    entrepreneurial career, started his political career by taking over
    the splinter that was left out of the MAFDAL-National Religious Party.
    That moldy rump party would have been lucky to get enough votes for
    two Knesset seats before Bennett. Within weeks he became the voice
    of Israelis who think that the Likud is too double-faced, cowardly,
    and demagogic.

    A poll released today by the prestigious Israeli Geocartographia
    company says that, if the elections were held today (they are less
    than 3 weeks away),, Bennett and his party would get 18 Knesset seats
    out of 120, probably making it the second largest party in the Knesset
    after the Likud, possibly beating out the Labor Party for the
    second-place parliamentary position.

    Bennett has successfully attracted a wide range of both religious and
    secularist Israelis, people who want a party with a clear anti-Oslo
    platform, one that does not mumble about "peace partners" and a
    possible Palestinian state "under the right circumstances," one that
    says what it means and means what it says. It is attractive to those
    who want to vote for a party consisting of people who could actually
    get jobs if they were not in the parliament, ruling out most of the
    Likud.

    The only other unambiguously anti-Oslo party with such a clear message
    is trapped in fringe insignificance because it is headed by an open
    Kahanist. And in Israel today, being an open Kahanist makes you a
    pariah and unelectable. Bennett speaks his mind clearly and openly,
    doing so even when it led to a temporary stumble in a political
    pothole a few days ago.

    Bennett has both the Left and the Likud foaming at the mouth in
    hysteria. The Likud has been engaging in hysterical mudslinging at
    Bennett. But so far, it is like that country-western song: Every
    time they throw dirt at him, they lose a little ground. Bennett has
    been soaring and the Likud-Lieberman coalition has been imploding in
    the polls as a result of the Likud mudfest, which has included
    "anonymous" attack ads against Bennett in the media. The fascist Left
    is even more threatened by Bennett's success, so of course is pulling
    out all stops to try to slander and bury him.

    Consider the attack on Bennett's party today by Yediot Ahronot, the
    large Israeli daily (it has actually fallen to second place behind the
    freebie Israel Hayom). Yediot has been trying to out-Haaretz even
    Haaretz in behaving like a lapdog of the Left. In any case, in
    today's paper Yediot claims to expose the political extremism of the
    top 15 people on the party slate of Bennett's Bayit Yehudi party. It
    promises readers it has uncovered sleaze on every one of them and that
    they are a bunch of far-Right zealots and extremists. In each case,
    they display the worst quote they could find from that person's public
    political record to discredit that person.

    And just what did they find? Of the top 15 people, they only found a
    single quote for two of them that seemingly makes them look "extreme,"
    and even those two do not look extreme in the quote Yediot uncovers.
    Of all the others, the best Yediot can do is to "prove" that a
    candidate from the party (Rabbi Hillel Horowitz, number 13 on slate
    and Orit Struck, number 10) holds extremist rightwing views by writing
    under his or her picture that he/she holds extremist rightwing views,
    with no illustrations or citations. A few slate members have been
    active in anti-Oslo NGOs. Some even (gasp!!) opposed the eviction of
    the Jews from the Gaza Strip, which we now know accomplished nothing
    other than turning Gaza into Hamastan and a rocket launch base. One
    other candidate had headed the Bnei Akiva movement for religious
    Zionist youth and, while there, he had sanctioned some separate
    activities for boys and girls. Proving how extremist he is in the
    view of Yediot. The only actual quotes Yediot could uncover was one
    from Rabbi Eli Bar-Dahan (number 4 on the slate) saying that gay
    marriage would be a threat to Jewish survival, and another from Uri
    Ariel (number 2 on slate) opposing conscription of homosexuals into
    the army.

    That's it. That is the worst that Yediot could uncover. Even if you
    disagree with those last two statements, almost everything else you
    will read about what the people on the slate say and think will leave
    you with a buzz, a feeling of bliss. Bennett himself this week came
    out unambiguously in favor of reining in the imperious anti-democratic
    Israeli Supreme Court, and also expressed criticism of the political
    bias and lack of pluralism in the media. He is the ONLY serious
    political leader in Israel daring to make such statements. Haaretz
    meanwhile is trying to paint Bennett as anti-women.

    The only political tumble Bennett has experienced to date may not have
    even been a real tumble. He was being interviewed for TV by the
    arrogant far-leftist TV journalist Nissim Mishal, and at one point
    Bennett said that, if he were ever to be given an order while serving
    in the army to evict a Jewish family from its home because of the
    government's political agenda, he would personally refuse to carry out
    that order. He could have ducked the question but choose to answer it
    candidly. The Get-Bennett SWAT Team then had a field day. He is
    justifying mutiny and lawlessness, screamed the very same Haaretz
    editors who have always supported leftist attempts to organize mutiny
    and insurrection in the army, praising THOSE leftist campaigns as
    infinitely moral. Others compared the "Rightwing Insurrection" of
    Bennett to the long track record of Leftwing Moonbats calling for
    Insurrections among soldiers.

    Now here is not the place for a detailed exploration of the moral
    issue of conscientious objection and refusal to carry out immoral
    orders given to soldiers. I will just say that, in general, such
    things make me uncomfortable. There are appropriate places for taking
    a moral stand and expressing political opinions, but politicizing the
    army is way out of bounds. Having said that, I also note that Bennett
    just said that he personally would refuse the order and would then man
    up to any personal legal consequences from that refusal. (He later
    retracted the whole statement, by the way.) He did not call upon
    OTHER soldiers to refuse to obey orders, something the Tenured Left
    does several times a day. And his reluctance to carry out such an
    order was based on the fact that he is PRO-Israel, while the Leftists
    organizing mutiny do so because they are ANTI-Israel.

    Ultimately, the incident did not harm Bennett's campaign and may well
    have helped it. He came across as a straight-shooter, a
    non-politician who does not mince words and is not afraid to answer
    honestly what he thinks, a Jimmy-Stewart Mister Smith headed for the
    Knesset Hill. A pro career politician would have ducked the question
    in the interview and said something like "I would have to ponder the
    situation," or "It would all depend" or "I did not sex with that
    Lewinsky woman." Bennett's shy candor is endearing and refreshing.

    And if the trend continues, he could end up with 25 Knesset seats,
    maybe even out-polling Netanyahu and the Likud.
     
  4. HBendor

    HBendor New Member

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    From: Prof. stevenplaut@gmail.com
    Sent: 1/6/2013 2:18:03 P.M. Eastern Standard Time

    Subj: Oh Dear, the Left is Suddenly upset about Academic Partisanship!


    1. A demonstration of the remarkable success of Naftali Bennett and
    his party is apparent in the vicious attack ads and dirty tricks being
    used by Netanyahu and the Likud against them. The Likud has joined
    forces with the radical Left in trying to demonize Bennett and his
    team, because they all find Bennett's success so alarming.

    Nevertheless, the tactic of the Likud over the past week in trying
    to paint Bennett as "anti-women" is the finest illustration of the
    lack of integrity and decency in the Likud and the extent to which it
    feels threatened by Bennett's growing juggernaut.

    Last week the Likud, probably under direct orders by Bibi, placed
    attack ads in all the Israeli media accusing Bennett of having "woman
    haters" on his party slate. Likud statements accused Bennett of
    hostility to women. The accusations were entirely based on the fact
    that one member of the Bennett (Jewish Home Party) slate, Rabbi Eli
    Ben Dahan who is number four on the list of candidates, had called
    for the elimination of the Knesset Committee on the Status of Women.
    What further proof is required?, scream the Likud hacks.

    Well, first of all, eliminating the Knesset Committee on the
    status of women would not be such a bad idea. Its main activities in
    the past have been in pressing for dumbing down standards, promoting
    the implementation of gender quotas, "affirmative action" and nature
    double standards, gender preferences, and other silly ideas that harm
    women and create the general suspicion that any woman who is
    successful must have made it up the slippery pole because of such
    discrimination. Ask why many black families in the US refuse to send
    their children to a black dentist and you will understand the point.

    But that is just MY reason for thinking the committee should be
    shut down. So what is Rabbi Ben Dahan's reason and what did he really
    say? Well, it turns out, and you would know this only if you read
    Makor Rishon, that the actual quote by Rabbi Ben Dahan was to call for
    the elimination of the Knesset Committee on Women because he wanted to
    merge it together with the Knesset Committee on the Welfare of
    Children, claiming that the merged committee would be far more
    powerful and effective and influential!

    Yes, the guy who the Likud claims is the epitome of male chauvinism
    in Bennett's slate simply called for making the efforts of the
    Committee on Women MORE effective!! The Likud showed its lack of
    integrity and willingness to engage in sleaze and distortion in order
    to make a few fleeting political points, and counted on no one ever
    checking to see what Ben Dahan had REALLY said! But that is what he
    really said!

    The other interesting point being that Bennett has three times as
    many women in the senior positions on his party slate than the Likud
    has.


    2. The editorial today in Haaretz, the Palestinian newspaper
    published in Hebrew, is a broadside attack on the decision by the
    government to allow the Shalem Center to operate its own college. The
    college would NOT be funded by the taxpayer. You can read the
    editorial here:
    http://www.haaretz.com/opinion/under-academic-robes-1.492107

    Let me explain. The Shalem Center is a Jerusalem-based think tank
    run by a team headed by Dr. Yoram Hazony, who is politically close to
    Bibi Netanyahu. Hazony has served as a close advisor for Bibi in the
    past. In the 1990s Hazony sought to set up a policy think tank
    roughly based upon the role models of the Heritage Institute or the
    American Enterprise Institute in the US, and initially it was thought
    that it would deal mainly with domestic Israeli social and economic
    policies. At that point I was loosely associated with it and wrote a
    few policy papers for the Center.

    For a variety of reasons, within a few years the Center changed
    its focus and decided to devote its energies to philosophical and
    religious discourse regarding the mission and nature of Israel,
    including things like Religion-State relations, but even more so - the
    threat and evil of "Post-Zionism." Since my "comparative advantage"
    was in the economic policy issues, I had little of value to offer this
    refocused Shalem Center and played no further role in it, other than
    privately enjoying its publications.

    For the past few years, Hazony and his Center have been proposing
    to open a "college" that would teach mainly things like philosophy,
    Jewish thought, and maybe political science, and it would be from a
    decidedly Zionist and liberal (in the good sense of the word)
    perspective. A few days ago the government agreed to grant
    accreditation to the new College. Among the people involved in its
    establishment are world-class intellectuals Martin Kramer and Menachem
    Kellner (the latter being an expert on Maimonides and Jewish Thought,
    well left of center and a friend of mine).

    Haaretz is aghast. Here is a citation from its editorial:

    'According to the subtitle of this mission statement, "Shalem College
    is a historic opportunity to create visionary leaders for the Jewish
    state and people." This makes it clear that academics at the
    institution will be subordinate to higher purposes with a distinct
    ideological identity. Constant skepticism, a key academic principle
    since Medieval times, is not mentioned.

    'After last week's announcement Education Minister Gideon Sa'ar, who
    chairs the Council for Higher Education, called it "another step
    toward rehabilitating the humanities." In effect, the accreditation
    was a narrow partisan measure concealed in the robes of officialdom.
    It would have been better for Sa'ar and the council to find ways to
    increase undergraduate enrollment at Israeli universities,
    particularly in the humanities, than to encourage private,
    donor-supported institutions with a political agenda.'
    ***

    Subordinating academic activity to partisanship and ideology, you
    say? Skepticim is needed in academia? Hmmm…..

    First let us note that Israel has plenty of one-sided partisan
    ideological "academic institutions" already, and the Haaretz editors
    have never objected to any of them. Even if we do not count the
    non-accredited "Socio-Economic College" run by the Israeli (Stalinist)
    Communist Party, which engages in Marxist indoctrination, the Beit
    Berl College, which IS accredited, is only slightly less partisan and
    conscripted. We posted a few days ago the story about a mandatory
    course at Beit Berl in Anti-Zionism and Demonization of Israel, which
    is forced upon students by a fanatical pro-terror communist woman
    lecturer there. The Bezalel College has behaved in only a slightly
    less extreme manner of partisan self-conscription.

    But that does not even scratch the surface. There are scores of
    departments in the mainstream Israeli universities in which it is
    prohibited to express a pro-Israel or Zionist opinion. Haaretz has
    long been the main (in fact the only) journalistic defender of the
    abomination at Ben Gurion "University" calling itself the Department
    of Politics, a university unit in which Israel bashing and
    anti-Zionist indoctrination are its main activities. An international
    panel of experts called for shutting down that department altogether,
    because of its extremist ideological biases, its total lack of
    pluralism, and its abysmally low level of academic quality. None of
    that prevented Haaretz from championing the department and demanding
    that it be preserved in the name of "academic freedom." Some
    skepticism!

    All or almost all the departments in Israel of political science,
    sociology, law, linguistics, education, and - of course - women's
    studies are monolithic uniformly-pure bastions of far-leftist
    anti-Israel indoctrination. They are the occupied territories of
    the Tenured Far Left. ohilosophy departments are just as bad. The
    history department at Tel Aviv University is for all intents and
    purposes a branch of the Israeli communist party.

    Haaretz has never expressed any discomfort with any of THAT!
     
  5. HBendor

    HBendor New Member

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  6. HBendor

    HBendor New Member

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  7. kotcher

    kotcher Member

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    The "Palestinians" need a good dose of Moshe Dayan right about now.

    To bad there was not a clone of Moshe Dayan that all the Jews could rally behind, that would solve the problem once and for all. If the Moslem's or anyone else did not like it, then they could go to any other place they please, except Palestine.

    The perfect solution the world could rally behind.
     
  8. Marlowe

    Marlowe New Member

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    You know what ? its arrogant IDIOTIC statements like that which defeats Israeli claims.



    Thanks ...
    LOL
     
  9. HBendor

    HBendor New Member

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    What are you angry about???? I agree with you on Moshe Dayan, he was a good General but he was also a womanizer, an archeology fan, he dug in a lot of places without any permit, and once he interred himself by mistake and they had to drag him half dead to a hospital... Ben Gurion came to visit him and asked him to return the artifacts to the museum but he never did... before he died his wife got a Million dollars from the Government and meekly returned his finds. I hate the man for another thing... he gave the upper part where the Temple was to the WAKF and when asked why he retorted I do not want a Jewish Vatican here.
     
  10. kotcher

    kotcher Member

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    Actually Moshe Dayan was a great friend of the Arabs, he grew up with them and played with them as a child. When it was suggested no bridges across the Jordan River be rebuilt following one of those wars, Moshe Dayan who was in command of Jerusalem commanded they be rebuilt and relations normalized.

    When people in the Israel government tried to close access to the Islamic Holy Places Moshe Dayan again commanded that free access be allowed to the Moslems.

    I was baiting you, I do not just post things that I feel or believe. I post the facts. You responded because of your emotion and a lack of knowledge of history.
     
  11. OJLeb

    OJLeb New Member

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    I think Miko Peled would be a much better choice for the people of both sides to rally behind.

    http://mikopeled.com/
     
  12. kotcher

    kotcher Member

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    Moshe Dayan was a great personal friend to the people of Israel/Palestine, actually was born in Israel and grew up playing with the Arabs. Of course his brother was killed in one of those nasty wars. I am not googling this, its from memory, I could google and find a link but I do not see how that is needed, I am travelling which I state to point out my books are at home. Anyone can google any answer they wish to find, I see too much of the selective google.

    So lets post what we exactly know to be true, if you have a specific War Crime you wish to bring to light, I would love to have the name of the incident. I have Ben Gurions' history of Israel which when I try and find the specifics of that cross border action into Jordan where people got killed, its not mentioned at all which I figure being a very important event, Ben Gurion should of covered that particular action.

    Moshe Dayan had his brother killed by one of the Arab Armies, two or three days later Moshe Dayan accepted their surrender, they thought it was a trap and at first were afraid to quit the fight but Moshe Dayan assured them their would be no personal retaliation, that he understood war is what it is.

    Moshe Dayan opened the bridges across the Jordan and allowed access to Abraham's grave to the Islamic worshippers. Abraham, think of that, makes everyone who believes in Islam a believer in the heritage of the Jews as well.

    If one reads books instead of google, the truth is clear.
     
  13. kotcher

    kotcher Member

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    Miko Peled, thanks for the link, I see a little bit, enough to go on, which is what I like and desire. I never use just one book, I cross reference all my books so I can sort out the chaff. Miko Peled is inspired to write because of his father General Peled. I did some googling to find the connection between General Peled and Moshe Dayan, and without be scholarly it seems apparent that General Peled was given his position as commander of the Gaza Strip by Defence Minister Moshe Dayan, so when you suggest this person would be a better choice, I can not argue with that, he may be. At this time my personal opinion based on my memory, and having not read the book you suggested is that General Peled and Moshe Dayan were equals in character and judgement.
    I see the young Peled who wrote the book may not have the clearest understanding in reference to his comments on the Sinai portion of the war, which is okay.

    Due to travel I am one month away from my personal library, I look forward to seeing where Moshe Dayan writes of General Peled as well as seeing if the name pops up in the excellent book by Menachem Begin, The Revolt. Then of course I can look through Wiezman's, Gurion's, Meir's, .c., etc.,.

    Your post supports my post that Israel needs another Moshe Dayan.
     
  14. klipkap

    klipkap Well-Known Member

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    Is this the same Moshe Dayan who is on record as admitting that 80%+ of the provacations along the Golan heights between 1964 and 1967 were perpetrated by the Israelis?

    Then add that to the next Dayan view and see what you make of it.

    Is it the same Moshe Dayan who is on record as stating in one of Eshkol's War cabinet meetings that is was not Nasser's rhetoric that had brought the 'crisis' to a critical point, but it was in fact Israle's invasion of Syria on 7th April 1967 that was the main cause?

    I suggest that you add to your praise of Dayan something that is quite rare in those illustrious circles ..... honesty
     
  15. klipkap

    klipkap Well-Known Member

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    Ahhh, OK. So it this General Elad Peled to whom you are referring, Kotcher?

    Would that be the same Peled who:

    # Sent a confidential memo to Yitzhak Rabin on 12th December 1966, supporting pre-emptive attacks against Jordan?

    # Who, in the minutes (IDFA 205/117/1970) of a General Staff debate on 23rd January 1967 supported an invasion of Syria?

    Was this the invasion of April 1967 which Dayan indicated to be the reason for Nasser's retaliatory steps in Sinai and Tiran, and hence which triggered 'the crisis'?
     
  16. kotcher

    kotcher Member

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    Nope, this is the Moshe Dayan that was a friend of the people, not the politicians.

    As far as honesty goes, I will gladly look at all sources you provide. My post is a honest, factual, account of History.
     
  17. HBendor

    HBendor New Member

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    Just to clarify a few things please study these 3 VIDEOS



    Israel And Gaza ... Why You Want To Keep Up With It 11-16-2012

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M-gQ3kcvdzk&feature=player_embedded#!

    Origin of Israel Palestinian Conflict

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wb6IiSUxpgw&feature=player_embedded


    Israel Army spokeswoman comments on Gaza attacks

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MfXj45Ns-ws&feature=player_embedded#!
     
  18. kotcher

    kotcher Member

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    I would prefer to watch Lawerence of Arabia, the end explains everything.

    Arabs did not have the education nor the culture to rule a nation.
     
  19. Margot

    Margot Account closed, not banned

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    You might want to read the diarie of Moshe Dayan and Sharrett.

    Palestine had factories in the 1800s.. They made shoes, pots and pans, pottery, cloth.. olive oil... They were exporting oranges by 1832.
     
  20. kotcher

    kotcher Member

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    I have Moshe Dayan's book, he speaks of helping modernize Arab agriculture. As far as shoes and oranges, got any names of the companies?

    I know oranges were produced in Jaffa, after Napoleon cleansed the land of Jews around the year 1800
     
  21. HBendor

    HBendor New Member

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    My Colleague from Haifa University came with a good one... please read.

    Time to Annex Judea and Samaria

    Posted By Steven Plaut On January 17, 2013

    In a few months it will be the twentieth anniversary of the signing of
    the “Oslo Accord” on the White House lawn. In that signing, Yassir
    Arafat, on behalf of the so-called “Palestinian Liberation
    Organization,” committed himself and his “people” to conduct
    negotiations with Israel that would lead to a peaceful resolution of
    the Middle East Arab-Israeli conflict. He forswore unilateral actions
    and decisions.
    Since then, the “Palestinian Authority,” which was set up by the PLO,
    has violated every single clause in that and the subsequent Oslo
    Accords. Twenty years hence, the “Palestinians” as represented by the
    “Authority” have yet to comply with a single one of their obligations.
    Arafat and his gangsters simply used the Accord as a cover to gain
    control over part of the West Bank and the Gaza Strip. They then
    converted all the territory they controlled into bases for launching
    terrorist aggression against Israel. The Palestinian terrorist groups
    have murdered at least 1700 Israeli civilians since signing that first
    “peace accord.” Thousands of Palestinian rockets have been launched
    into Israel aimed at Israeli civilians, and not just by the Hamas.
    “Palestinian leaders” repeat several times each day before breakfast
    that their aim is the obliteration of Israel altogether and that they
    will never recognize the legitimacy of Israel within any set of
    borders.
    The media controlled by the “Authority” and the terrorist
    organizations have been thoroughly nazified; they broadcast
    anti-Semitic filth that exceeds what the German Nazis broadcast in the
    1930s. The Gaza Strip has been completely nazified. Very little
    distinguishes the Islamofascism of the Hamas from the Islamofascism of
    the PLO, and the “president” of the Palestinian Authority is a
    certified Holocaust Denier.
    And now to top it all off, the “Palestinian Authority” has
    unilaterally declared itself to be a sovereign state and applied for
    United Nations membership as such. This is just the latest and not
    even the worst violation of “Palestinian” obligations under the Oslo
    Accords.
    There is growing debate about how Israel should respond to the
    behavior of the “Palestinians.” Indeed, there have already been calls
    in Israel to implement part of the proposals that follow here. This
    unilateral “declaration” of Palestinian statehood and bid for
    international recognition is not just a wholesale repudiation of the
    Oslo Accords by the “Palestinians.” It is also as much a declaration
    of war as was the secession of South Carolina. Any similar “secession”
    would be casus belli in any other country on the planet and would be
    suppressed with arms. And any country endorsing or supporting such
    secession would be treated as an enemy belligerent.
    Israel must make it crystal clear: the experimental Israeli
    willingness to consider acquiescing in the creation of a separate
    Palestinian state is over. The “Palestinians” never had a legitimate
    claim to statehood in the first place, although in exchange for peace
    Israel was in the past willing to overlook this. The “Palestinians”
    forfeited any shaky claim they might have had to statehood because of
    their behavior during the past two decades, indeed during the past
    century, their nonstop barbarism and mass atrocities. This is much
    like the East Prussians and Sudeten Germans forfeiting all THEIR
    rights to self-determination and even to autonomy after World War II.
    Israel must declare: The game of pretense and fiction is over. Israel
    is no longer willing to pretend that there exists some sort of
    “Palestinian people” entitled to statehood. The “Palestinians” are
    Arabs, and Arabs already have 22 states. They will not get yet another
    inside Israeli lands. Any Palestinian wishing to enjoy national
    sovereignty is free to move to one of those 22 Arab states, but no
    Arab sovereignty will exist in Israeli territory, meaning the lands
    between the Jordan River and the Mediterranean Sea.
    The “Palestinian declaration of statehood” must be dealt with by means
    of a unilateral Israeli settlement imposed on the West Bank and
    de-nazification of the local population.
    The principles upon which such a unilateral Israeli concordance and
    resolution must be founded are these:
    1. The West Bank belongs to Israel and is Israeli in all ways. No
    non-Israeli sovereignty of any form will be permitted in the territory
    between the Jordan River and the Mediterranean Sea. The West Bank is
    part of the Jewish national homeland, always was, and always will be.
    2. “Palestinian” Arabs living in the West Bank will not receive
    Israeli citizenship and will not vote in Israeli national elections.
    3. The land and resources in the West Bank will remain under Israeli
    supervision, control, and regulation.
    4. “Palestinians” who do not wish to live under Israeli sovereignty
    will be free to leave. Israel may consider providing financial
    support, property compensation, or incentives for those so wishing to
    leave.
    5. Most “Palestinians” choosing to remain in the West Bank will live
    in reservations, in some ways resembling Native-American-Indian
    territories that function inside the United States (possibly even
    including casinos), although in some ways they will differ.
    Reservations will be operated in those parts of the West Bank that
    have large concentrations of Arab population, meaning Jericho, Nablus,
    Ramallah, Jenin, Tul Karem, and a few other areas. Reservations will
    NOT have territorial contiguity. In each reservation, the
    “Palestinians” will be permitted autonomy and limited self-rule to
    manage their own local affairs as long as violence is completely
    absent from the reservation. Where violence is present, they will be
    denied autonomy. Reservations from which terrorism arises may be shut
    down and their populations dispersed. Arabs engaging in or supporting
    terrorism in any way will be deported.
    6. “Palestinians” in the West Bank will be considered to be resident
    aliens within the Jewish state. Many still have Jordanian passports
    and citizenship and will be considered resident Jordanians.
    “Palestinians” who do not have Jordanian citizenship will be stateless
    unless they obtain citizenship from some other country.
    7. Jews will have the right to live anywhere they wish in the West
    Bank outside the reservations assigned to the “Palestinian” Arabs. The
    territory in the West Bank in which Arabs do not live or live
    sparsely, and this includes the Jordan Valley and the sparse areas in
    between the reservations, will be opened to unlimited Jewish
    settlement.
    The villages and towns with the Arab reservations will be assigned to
    two lists, a white list and a black list. Those in the white list will
    manage their own affairs without interference from the Israeli central
    authorities. Residents of white-list towns may hold commuter jobs in
    Israeli cities and industrial parks. The local authorities in the
    white areas will manage their schools and other local institutions.
    They will collect their own taxes and may benefit from revenue sharing
    arrangements with the Israeli fiscal authorities, like other Israeli
    towns. They might be allowed to operate their own local police forces.
    Residents in white-listed areas will be fully and freely mobile, able
    to move freely within and among all white-list areas. They will be
    allowed to develop local industry and tourist services. Their
    residents will have access to Israel universities, health facilities,
    and other services.
    Those towns and villages in the black list will enjoy none of the
    above. Their residents will be denied the opportunity to hold day jobs
    in Israeli cities and industrial parks. They will have no access to
    Israeli services. They will have control over nothing. Their residents
    will be prevented from moving freely outside their reservation, except
    in cases where they wish to leave the country altogether. They will
    receive no shared revenues, no fiscal incentives.
    Villages and towns will be assigned to the two lists based entirely on
    one single factor: violence. Areas in which violence occurs, and this
    includes rock throwing, will be assigned to the black list. Areas in
    which violence is absent will be assigned to the white list. Towns and
    villages will be reassigned to the black list from the white list when
    terrorism, sniping, mortars, rockets, or other forms of violence occur
    there. Towns and villages in the black list will be assigned to the
    white list only when the local population cooperates fully with Israel
    in apprehending and arresting the terrorists and those engaged in
    violence, and takes other effective actions to end the violence.
    Otherwise they will remain on the black list indefinitely. Entry into
    black list areas will be denied to foreigners, journalists, and
    especially to the “International Solidarity” anarchists and their ilk.

    to be continued
     
  22. HBendor

    HBendor New Member

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    continued from previous.

    Any such anarchist infiltrating the areas of the black list will be
    denied permission to leave them and will remain there indefinitely, or
    else will be imprisoned by Israel.
    This of course leaves the dilemma of the Gaza Strip. As noted, because
    of the Israeli folly of withdrawing from and abandoning its control
    over the Gaza Strip, the area is now nothing more than a large
    rocket-launching terrorist base. I happen to believe that, in the long
    run, Israel will have no choice but to re-impose its complete control
    over the Gaza Strip.
    But for the immediate future, an Israeli unilateral set of moves will
    be necessary here as well. Basically these must consist of a
    three-pronged assault against Gaza the very first time that a rocket
    is launched into Israel from that territory. In this assault, Israel
    will seize a strip of land several kilometers wide that will divide
    the Gaza Strip from Egypt and this will end the massive smuggling of
    weapons, explosives, drugs and other materials into Gaza. The other
    two prongs will split Gaza into three smaller segments. Israel will
    control movement of people and materials among these segments. It will
    arrest and shoot terrorists on the spot. And eventually it may impose
    the system of reservations and the white-black lists upon Gaza as
    well.
    This is how Israel should respond to the declaration of war by the
    “Palestinians” in their unilateral declaration of statehood.
    ***


    2. As we have been noting here, the most dramatic development in the
    current Israeli election is the rise of Naftali Bennett's Bayit Yehudi
    (Jewish Home) party. The polls are giving him between 14 and 18
    Knesset seats and I am hoping he will do even better. He has a
    serious chance of pushing aside the Menshevik Party of Shelly
    Yachimovich (a.k.a. the Israeli Labor Party) to become the Number Two
    party in the next Knesset.

    Bennett's rise is so dramatic that the Obama White House has been
    issuing statements about the "danger" to the world from the success of
    Bennett and his party. I cannot think of a more persuasive reason to
    vote for them.

    The bulk of the Likud's campaign these past weeks and the lion's share
    of Likud election ads have been devoted to trying to discredit Bennett
    and his people. The Likud continues to hammer away at the supposed
    "anti-women" position of some of Bennett's people, a blatant lie by
    the Likud, and never mind that Bennett's slate has three times as many
    women on it as the Likud's. The Likud dug up an old alleged statement
    (I am not sure he really said it) by one of the people on Bennett's
    slate in which he supposedly said that the murdered murderer Baruch
    Goldstein (who shot up the Hebron Mosque 19 years ago) was a victim.
    (Goldstein was lynched after he had been disarmed after committing his
    atrocity; had an Arab terrorist been killed after being disarmed, you
    can bet he would have become the martyr saint of the Israeli Left!)
    And the Likud keeps insisting that Bennett and his party will be
    considered untouchables and will not be part of any Likud led
    government coalition after the election. Netanyahu has the advantage
    though of ever being believed by anyone so it will be easy for him to
    backslide after the election.

    Bennett has responded not with ad hominem anti-Netanyahu ads but
    rather by running new ads showing Bennett and Netanyahu side by side
    smiling and cooperating in the next government. Moreover, Bennett is
    consistently refusing to wash any Likud dirty laundry in public.
    Bennett had once been the director of Netanyahu's Prime Minister's
    Office until resigning under somewhat mysterious circumstances, but
    widely believed to be because Netanyahu's wife was interfering with
    and harassing Bennett. However, Bennett has simply refused to comment
    on that matter at all, saving Netanyahu embarrassment, and similarly
    has refused to engage in any other Lashon Ha-Ra regarding other
    head-to-head conflicts he has experienced over the years with other
    people. In short, Bennett is an Old School Gentleman and that is one
    more reason why he deserves to win.

    The Likud's attempt to bash Bennett over "women" is amusing to say the
    least. It should be noted that women in current Israeli politics tend
    to be extremely incompetent and incapable, probably because competent
    women do more productive things than politics. Golda Meir of course
    made it without any affirmative action, but just take a gander at the
    women currently in positions of political leadership. There is Shelly
    Yachimovish, whom I call Little Bo Peep (because she has lost so many
    of her Menshevik sheep). There is the arrogant and vulgar Zehava
    Gal-On, the Madam DeFarge of the Meretz bolsheviks. (Now would be a
    good time to remind readers that when Stalin died, the party newspaper
    of MAPAM, which is today one of the central factions comprising
    Meretz, ran a banner headline reading, "The Sun of the Nations has
    Set.") Many of Israel's worst tenured anti-Zionists are strongly
    backing Meretz. And then there is Tzipi Livni. Every time she opens
    her mouth I am tempted to run over, pat her on her shoulder and say
    NOW NOW, and offer her my handkerchief.

    Not exactly a great set of figures to persuade us to endorse the
    feminist demands for quotas in political representation!

    Livni is now the head of one of three centrist Seinfeldian parties
    running in the election. You recall that Seinfeld boasted that his
    was a show about nothing. Well, these are parties about nothing.
    Quite a few Israelis tend to vote for Seinfeldian parties, because
    they dislike the parties that actually stand for something. Little
    White Bird (that is what Tzipi Livni's Hebrew name means) heads just
    one of these. Her erstwhile sidekick Mofaz heads a second party, but
    support for him is so low that he is not expected to make it past the
    cutoff into the next Knesset. Then there is Yair Lapid, a
    good-looking airhead whose political agenda is nothing more than his
    being a good-looking airhead. He is a TV host, not a very good one,
    and that seems to be his entire novelty.

    Shelly Bo Peep's party is also becoming increasingly Seinfeldian. Her
    remaining support seems to be coming from the sorts of people who sat
    in the protest tents in Tel Aviv last year demanding government
    handouts and price controls. (Almost no one believes in the Labor
    Party's Peresian delusions about the New Middle East and Palestinian
    peace partners.) Shelly promises the adolescents cheap housing in
    central Tel Aviv, but refuses to explain just how she plans to provide
    any. She appeals to young pampered middle class kids who do not want
    to work hard or pay market prices for anything.

    The Radical anti-Israel Left is also hysterical about the rise of
    Bennett and his party. Haaretz devotes part of the front page every
    day to bashing and discrediting them. (As an example of how detached
    from reality Haaretz has gotten, take a look at this:
    http://www.haaretz.com/opinion/there-has-never-been-an-israeli-left.premium-1.494471
    . Haaretz believes that treason is the most effective method for
    attracting votes for the parties of the Far Left. )

    In today's Bash-Bennett smear, Haaretz publishes a grand scoop: the
    brother of Yigal Amir, the assassin who murdered Yitzhak Rabin,
    published on his Facebook page the claim that his brother Yigal plans
    to vote for Bennett.

    Well, I have my own scoop. The favorite newspaper of Iran's Holocaust
    Denying president Mahmous Ahmadinejad is Haaretz, and the heads of the
    Hamas are all supporting the political parties of which Haaretz
    approves: BALAD (as in terrorist Hanin Zoabi), the Stalinist HADASH
    party, and - when Haaretz is forced to compromise and moderate itself
    - Meretz/MAPAM.


    3. On many an occasion we have commented on the Literary Left in
    Israel. But there also operates in Israel the Cinematic Left, which
    is at least as extremist and anti-Israel as the Literary Left.
    Propped up by subsidies from the government, far-leftist film-makers
    churn out bash-Israel films. The foreign anti-Semites love them. The
    leftist-run "Jewish film festivals" in bastions of civilization like
    Berkeley all feature them. Especially when they paint Israel as the
    New Nazi Germany. Not every single director of Israeli films is an
    anti-Israel loon, and not every single Israeli film is atrocious, and
    "The Footnote" from last year and its director were unusual
    exceptions.

    There are two films right now by Israeli directors that are so
    anti-Israel that the Hollywood Left has them down as candidates for an
    Oscar. Please take a look at this expose of the Cinematic Left:
    http://www.debbieschlussel.com/5817...israel-doesnt-want-peace-settlements-illegal/.
    See also http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4332078,00.html
    and this: http://www.israelnationalnews.com/Articles/Article.aspx/12729
    and http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/164084 .

    4. Here is a remarkable piece, even more remarkable because it ran on
    the Haaretz web site (but not in the print version of the paper):
    http://www.haaretz.com/opinion/debate-the-flaws-of-the-left-not-just-the-right.premium-1.494404
     
  23. klipkap

    klipkap Well-Known Member

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    So, Mr Plaut is from a university? What does he do there? Certainly not research. Please pass the following on to him:

    "Netanyahu admits on video he deceived us to destroy the Olso accord" (click here)

    But that is not all. Netanyahu personally admits to a whole lot more. When Mr Plaut has read it, ask him to edit his peace.

    No problem. My pleasure :) Always glad to help the less informed.

    ------------------------------------

    Dear Mr Plaut,

    Here are the other shenanigans that Netanyahu admitted to:

    # He dismisses the US as "easily moved to the right direction" and calls high levels of popular American support for Israel "absurd"

    # He also suggests that, far from being defensive, Israel's harsh military repression of the Palestinian uprising was designed chiefly to crush the Palestinian Authority led by Yasser Arafat so that it could be made more pliable for Israeli diktats (sic)

    From this, here is what The Guardian concludes: "The contemptuous view of Washington Mr Netanyahu demonstrates in the film will confirm the suspicions of many observers - including Palestinian leaders - that his current professions of good faith should not be taken seriously." I cannot fault that conclusion. Can you, Mr Plaut?
     
  24. HBendor

    HBendor New Member

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    First and foremost. you and your coterie of mignons including 'the Guardian' cannot shine the shoes of Professor Steven Plaut of Haifa University.

    Second, Abbas surreptitiously going to the UN to upstage the recognition of his group as a State automatically KILLED Oslo I and Oslo II... In life there is a 'YING and a YANG... You can pull but you have to give back equally.
    BB visit to a mourning family in addition to his 'faux pas' about Oslo does not mean a darn thing... Israel is a democracy and the decision making for Israel is the Knesset and not Bibi Netanyahu... Klip is used to the demagogic Arab leaders and by his logic included the sole Democracy in the M.E. as emulating one of the Arab Tyrants ruling the Middle East.

    No one should pay attention to this and that, but rather try to be more pragmatic visualizing reality in the not too distant future. Israel does not operate on Klip's declarations nor on his Amen corner of defamers on this Forum.
     
  25. klipkap

    klipkap Well-Known Member

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    A "faux pas"!!?? His admitting that he scuppered Oslo, while you are trying to shift the blame elsewhere, is just a "faux pas"? Is that honestly meant to be a rebuttal?

    [​IMG]

    By the way, HBendor, was it a "faux pas" when you posted that you never claimed that the Palestinian growth numbers could only be derived from immigration; that you never claimed that the Syrian immigration into Palestine was permanent; that you never claimed that the Palestinian Arabs came from Arabia? Oy vey!! These darn 'faux pas' :)

    Because as it stands, if you never made those claims, your case that the Palestinians are annoying immigrants, craters by your own hand, let alone the other mountains of evidence. Faux pas indeed.
     

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