'There won't be a Palestinian state within Israel'

So you join the militant Zionists in insisting to ignore UN Security Council resolutions 242 and 338, to reject the Arab peace proposals of 2002 and 2007, to fly in the face of the Charter of the United Nations which your country sought so frantically to sign in 1949, to continue to violate the Geneva Conventions, to pretend that the ICJ legal opinion on 'The Wall' was somehow flawed, and frantically try to convince a gullible West that all of this is not so. Let me tell you, that gullibility is steadily crumbling - as you can see here on this very forum. I am a classic example.

OK, so be it.

But recognise that you are thereby proposing that Israel sever its only reasonable guarantee to its continued existence. With those attitudes, you and your likes are sealing the end of the Jewish State - whether it be in the next decade or in next five decades is not material.

What has changed is that the West started to realise in early 2000 that it had been lied to. That realisation coincided with the burgeoning of access to the internet. People joined forums like this one. They sought original texts and references. And they were amazed at what they found:

# They saw information that justification for the invasion of, and the subsequent Slaughter of 20 000+ in Lebanon, was based on a pack of lies. Verifiable UN observer reports showed Begin to be a liar.
# How it was Israel's chevalier attitude to international law in November 2008 that led to Operation Cast Lead and NOT its "defence".
# They saw through Israel's claims to moral high ground in 2012 when they noted that the Hamas rocket attacks only followed the assassinations of its leaders and did not precede them
# They are being confronted with professional studies of official archives which show that the Israeli leaders knew full well that Nasser was not intending to attack in 1967
# They are now seeing impeccable evidence that it was Israel who was the provoker along the Golan heights in 1964-1967 and not Syria and that Israel poked and poked until the 1966/1967 war started
# That it was Israel who invaded Jordan in 1966 (note - not 1967) and not the other way around
# That the Israeli independence was founded on a combination of an illegal UN resolution and bullying of member states by the USA
# And they are seeing previously unheralded examples of Israeli goals and the lengths that she will (and continues to) go to to grab land which is not hers - Ben-Gurion's "brilliant idea" of 1956; the Lavon 'Affair' of 1954, the assassination of the UN mediator Count Bernadotte, and the terrorism against the British at the end of WW2 when Britain was at her weakest, and when it was Britain who originally gave hope for a Jewish homeland. --- pure back-stabbing

People are seeing the true face of Zionism after having believed for half a century that they were "the good guys". And they are making different choices as a result.

So off you go, and defend yourself with your delusion that the above are not facts .... not by knowing this to be true because you have real rebuttal data -... but instead from pure nationalist brainwashing that the pursuit of Eretz Yisrael is righteous and that the Palestinians are not also the ancestors of the indigenous peoples of the 'Holy Land'. With one exception - they did not take (and >50% continue to take) a 2000 year leave of absence as their blood-brother, the Jews, did.

 

Some of the things you noted are correct and some are not.
I think the practical & the true solution for Palestinians is Jordan.
But !!
There is a demographic problem with the two hostile populations over their.
I suggest this issue (and here you are right, although you are an extreme and one-sided) to swap land.
It was customary throughout history.
Israel will close it's border including it's israeli residential areas in Judea and Samaria and in return they will give
the Palestinians the area called the "triangle" .That massive and large teritory includes the area called the "triangle".
That massive and huge territory includes tens of thousands of Israeli Arabs.
They not be moved from their land !! they just replace passports.
They already call themselves Palestinians....

 

You said Arabs .................

 

You have not changed my mind... but... it is nice to disagree with a member of the tribe.
To avoid being overcome by their birth rate from the inside the only solution is repatriation of Foreign Arabs in coordination with Jordan, I know that Abdallah II the dwarf king will resist but if Israel will pay for their transfer this might alleviate the burden that Hussein will have to integrate them... After all a country like Jordan surely must recognize/accept their IDs and their issued passports.

 

No. Jordan will never recognize the Arabs called Palestinians as Jordanians. They repudiated their entire "West Bank" of Jordan which actually made them Jordan instead of Transjordan. They rejected the Arabs called Palestinians precisely because they tend towards fanatical hatreds - these same Arabs have tried to assassinate the Jordanian King and tried to take over the government. When they were ousted and exiled, they destroyed Lebanon until they were ousted and exiled again by Israel.
When the infamous Oslo Accords allowed these criminals to return to Israel, they again fomented their hatreds until Arafat the Rotting called for Murderous Intifada of 2000. This resulted in Israel finally walling off the Arabs called Palestinians and expelling Gaza from their midst.
Now, they way Israel got rid of Gaza was a huge mistake, obviously. However, the elimination of Gaza from Israel has solved the Arab "birth rate problem." The Arabs of Shomrom and Yehuda cannot overtake in population, the general Jewish population of Israel. Their birth rate is dropping drastically and the birth rate of religious Jews, as always, is rising.
Israel is already a mutli-ethnic; multi-cultural; multi-religious; multi Everything State.
However, the Jewish State of Israel is also a Secular State.
Moshiach does not presently appear to be present. Hashem has not rebuilt the Bais HaMikdosh. Even the Jews in Eretz Yisroel are still in Galus.
So - in order to be a Light among Nations, the secular State of Israel is going to have to accommodate many, many different qualities of peoples, including Arabs who profess loyalty to the State and who are able to love the Jewish State of Israel.

Then again, if Yishmael (the Arabs) and Esav (the US and Europe) ever join together in the UN to divide Jerusalem, it will, indeed, be the time to expel the Arabs and the last chance for all Jews to make aliyah.
IMHO.

 

In the context of this thread, in the context of Lawrence of Arabia.

Arab's contributions are a good debate, much confusion there as well, you might find that their contributions were not that significant, but either way could be a good thread. Or another lousy flame war.

 

True for now .. but look what happened this week . Palestinians are starting to demonstrate in Jordan against the King.
They will kick him out and take over Jordan.
They will turn Jordan into their only state Palestine.

 

You mean Hashemites, not Jordanians, and you are right, Palestinian/Arabs left their tribes, they are outcasts.

 

I thought that you and HBendor were claiming that it already was.

Were you confused?

Thought so.

 

Soon .
And don't put me aside to other members of the forum !!

 

Ahh ... you meant it will --- SOON --- become a Palestinian state, did you?
Then why do you have a dozen posts on record claiming that it already is?
I repeat --- you are confused. That happens when you don't use actual facts for your suppositions.

 

The facts are that Palestinians are starting to demonstrate in Jordan against the King.
The facts are that Jordan will also be a part of the Arab spring ( dark winter ), it cannot escape it
All this will lead to the final result , and the best one for all sides ( besides King Hussain jr ) that Jordan will become Palestine.

 

First "Expel" is a misnomer... Repatriation is the word of the day... I do not want to expel any one friend, I want them to leave in Israeli Luxury Tourist buses from their own volition since otherwise they have to swear allegiance to the Flag of Israel and its own rule of laws... I suspect the 500,000 Arabs that left in 1947/8 had nothing to anchor themselves with to the ground. They had no Real Estate, they had no Bank accounts, in Haifa they lived in rental apartments etc., so they had nothing to call home... Again the majority of those who left were workers and not Owners the land belonged to several Arab families who lived outside the country, Cairo, Lebanon and Damascus

I wrote the following well documented paper when I was in college, so please read it and you will understand that I want to avoid the same mistake Sharon made in Gaza and can be repeated in Judea and Samaria... If Bibi ever extends to them land... this action cannot be reverse without bloodshed.


The Arab claim rests on two premises:
(1) At the latter part of the nineteenth century, the Palestinian Arabs were living and cultivating their lands in peace and security, until the European Jewish immigrants drove them from their territory, creating a large class of landless and dispossessed Arabs;

(2) In 1948 a small Jewish minority, which owned only 5% of the territory of the country, took over the 95% that belonged to the Arabs, and, illegally and immorally, established the State on that territory. It is necessary at this point to examine the state of the land and its inhabitants during the period of Turkish rule. In the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries - long before the beginning of modern Jewish settlement and Jewish acquisition of land - the population of the country was minuscule and continually decreasing. In 1738, the land was described by the English archeologist Thomas Shaw as "lacking in people to till its fertile soil" (Travels and Observations Relating to Several Parts of Barbary and the Levant).

The French historian Conte Constantine Francois Volney writes:
"The peasants are incessantly making inroads on each other's lands, destroying their corn, durra, sesame and olive-trees, and carrying off their sheep, goats and camels. The Turks, who are everywhere negligent in repressing similar disorders, are attentive to them here, since their authority is very precarious. The Bedouin, whose camps occupy the level country, are continually at open hostilities with them, of which the peasants avail themselves to resist their authority or do mischief to each other, according to the blind caprice of their ignorance or the interest of the moment. Hence arises an anarchy which is still more dreadful than the despotism that prevails elsewhere, while the mutual the contending parties renders the appearance of devastation of this part of Syria more wretched than that of any other." (Travels Through Syria and Egypt in the Years 1783, 1784, and 1785)

There were, in addition to the local disputes, actual wars. In the beginning of the nineteenth century Napoleon's armies invaded the land; in 1831 it was conquered by the Egyptians, and nine years later again by the Turks. All these - in addition to the internal fighting - created in the country a climate of insecurity, which led to a sharp decline in its physical state and to the emigration of its inhabitants, who left in search of better living conditions elsewhere. Many of those who nevertheless stayed and continued to work their land were forced to relinquish ownership of it and find refuge with people of means or with the Muslim religious endowment fund ("the wakf" . A situation was created, then, in which the true owners of the lands did not reside on them, but leased them to others while they themselves spent their lives in such distant places as Damascus, Beirut, and Cairo.

H. B. Tristram, who wrote of his travels in the Holy Land in his 1865 book The Land of Israel.- A Journal of Travels in Palestine, presents a revealing description of the living conditions in the Land of Israel as he found them in the middle of the nineteenth century:

"A few years ago, the whole Ghor (Jordan Valley) was in the hands of the fellahin = (Imported Land tillers) and much of it cultivated for corn. Now the whole of it is in the hands of the Bedouin = (Marauding Nomads), who eschew all agriculture except in a few spots cultivated here and there by their slaves; and with the Bedouin come lawlessness and the uprooting of all Turkish authority. No government is now acknowledged on the east side; and unless the Porte = (Turkish Leader) acts with greater firmness and caution than is his wont... Palestine will be desolated and given up to the nomads."

Alexander Keith, recalling Volney's 1785 description (quoted above) fifty years later, commented: "In his day [Volney's] the land had not fully reached its last degree of desolation and depopulation." (The Land of Israel).

Other travelers and pilgrims recorded similar reports of the dreary state of the Land around the middle of the nineteenth century. Here are just a few examples:

Alphonse de Lamartine, in 1835: "...a complete eternal silence reigns in the town, on the highways, in the country ... the tomb of a whole people" (Recollections of the East, Vol. I, p. 30.

A contemporary German encyclopedia (Brockhaus, "Allegmeine deutsche Real-Encyklopaidie", Vol. VIII, p. 206, Leipzig, 1827) calls Palestine "desolate and roamed through by Arab robber-bands."

In 1849, the American W. F. Lynch described the desertion of Palestinian villages "caused by the frequent forays of the wandering Bedouin" (Narrative of the United States Expedition to the River Jordan and the Dead Sea, p. 489).

And again H. B. Tristram, in 1865: "... both in the north and south (of the Sharon plain), land is going out of cultivation, and whole villages are rapidly disappearing from the face of the earth. Since the year 1838, no less than 20 villages have been thus erased from the map (by the Bedouin) and the stationary population extirpated" (p. 490).

Better known in this context, perhaps, are the words of the American author Mark Twain, who records personal impressions of a visit to the Holy Land in 1867. His account abounds in descriptions such as these:

"Desolate country whose soil is rich enough but is given over wholly to weeds - a silent mournful expanse We reached Tabor safely ... We never saw a human being on the whole route" (p. 451, 480); "There is not a solitary village throughout its (the Jezreel Valley's) whole extent - not for thirty miles in either direction. There are two or three small clusters of Bedouin tents but not a single permanent habitation. One may ride ten miles, hereabouts, and not see ten human beings" (p. 44; "Of all the lands there are for dismal scenery, I think Palestine must be the prince. The hills are barren ... the valleys are unsightly deserts... It is a hopeless, dreary, heartbroken land... Palestine is desolate and unlovely... Palestine is no more of this workday world. It is sacred to poetry and tradition - it is dreamland" (pp. 564, 567).

Referring to the same era, the Christian historian James Parkes writes in "Whose Land"? "Peasant and Bedouin alike have contributed to the ruin of the countryside on which both depend for a livelihood... In spite of the immense fertility of the soil, it is probable that in the first half of the nineteenth century the population sank to the lowest level it had ever known in historic times."

Conclusion: The propagandist myth of an "entire Palestinian people uprooted from its soil by the Zionists" is shattered against the reality of the nineteenth century: plunder and devastation, war and destruction, chaos, anarchy, a population dispersed and declining. All this occurred many years before the beginning of the Zionist settlement, while the Jewish population still resided in the "Holy Cities" of Jerusalem, Hebron, Tiberias, and Safed, long before these Jews together with Jewish immigrants from the lands of the Diaspora began purchasing land and tilling the soil. Moreover, at the end of the nineteenth century the Jewish pioneers began to make the desert areas of the land bloom, rendering the country highly attractive to Jews and Arabs alike. It is an undisputed fact that after World War I the pattern of Arab emigration was reversed: Until that time, the number of Arabs who left the land exceeded that of those who came to live in it. Starting in the 1920s, there were more immigrants than emigrants. In addition, where did they settle? Usually in those areas which did the Jewish settlers develop!

What was the state of the land - its ownership and cultivation - at the end of the period of Turkish rule? Most of the territory was concentrated in the hands of a few wealthy landlords, most of whom lived far from their property. In many cases these lands were, or seemed, unfit for agriculture, and were therefore neither settled nor cultivated. Tenant farmers worked occasional plots. According to a Turkish register drawn up shortly before World War 1, there were at that time 3,130,000 Dunams in the hands of 144 landlords that is, approximately 22,000 Dunams average per family. In the Nablus and Tul-Karem districts, five families held 157,000 Dunams, of which the Husseini family owned 50,000 Dunams in various parts of the country, and the Abdel-Hadi family 60,000. The largest single holding, 230,000 Dunams in the Jezreel valley, was in the hands of the Sursuk family, which resided in Beirut and Cairo.

The Palestinian peasant, then, was indeed exploited and at times dispossessed, not by the Jewish settler, but rather by his fellow-Arabs: the local sheiks, the Bedouin village elders, the Turkish tax collector, the merchants and moneylenders (at interest rates as high as 60%), and if he was a tenant-farmer = imported Land Tiller, as was usually the case, by the absentee landlord as well.

When considering the issue of the lands which passed from Arabs to Jews, and on which the pioneering Zionist settlement was founded, six facts should be borne in mind:
(1) The land was paid for in full.
(2) Most of the land purchased involved large tracts belonging to absentee landlords.
(3) Most of the land acquired was uncultivated because it was swampy, sandy, or rocky, or for other reasons considered unsuitable for agriculture.
(4) For this reason, the initial purchases did not involve large sums of money, but with the passage of years the price of land began to rise as Arab landowners took advantage of the growing demand for rural tracts.
(5) Modern agricultural methods introduced by the Jewish pioneers, which improved the lands and increased their yield, were quickly adopted by the neighboring Arab farmers.
(6) The number of farmers forced to leave their land due to the Zionist undertaking was relatively very small.

All those who left were compensated in accordance with the law, either by monetary payment or by other agricultural land; and indeed most continued to be farmers.

Furthermore, a large number of Arabs from other parts of the country or from neighboring countries settled in the areas developed by the Jews.

Following are some revealing statistics:
(1) Out of the 429,887 Dunams acquired by PICA (Palestine Jewish Colonization Association) from private landowners between 1880 and 1947, 293,545 Dunams - close to 70% - were large tracts of uncultivated land, most of which belonged to absentee landlords.
(2) The purchases of the Palestine Land Development Corporation included an even greater percentage of large tracts - approximately 90% (455,169 Dunams out of 512,979, which were purchased of private owners).
If we add to this the 66,513 Dunams of Beersheba desert land and the swamps of the Hula Valley, we will find that the purchases of the corporation totaled close to 580,000 Dunams.
(3) A third body which purchased property in Palestine was the Jewish National Fund, which leased the lands to groups or individual settlers for periods of forty-nine or ninety-nine years, in accordance with the principle that the Land of Israel belongs to the Jewish People, and no one has the right to hold permanent ownership of Israeli soil. In the first thirty years of its existence, the JNF acquired 270,084 Dunams, of which 239,170 (close to 90%) were large tracts. This percentage dropped during subsequent years, but of the total area of 566,312 Dunams purchased by individuals, at least 50% were large tracts of land which was either totally uncultivated or only superficially cultivated.

The prices paid by Jewish individuals and organizations for property in Palestine reached, during the 1930s, legendary proportions. The Palestine Royal Commission ("the Peel Commission" of 1937 reported that in the year 1933 alone sums totaling 854,769 Pounds sterling were paid; in 1934 the total reached 1,647,836 Pounds sterling and in 1935, 1,699,488 Pounds sterling. During those three years alone, then, the total sum paid to Arab landlords reached 4,202,180 Pounds sterling, which was the equivalent of over $20 million at the time. Ten years later, in 1944, an acre (4 Dunams) of good, fertile land in the State of Iowa cost $ 100, while in that same year Jews in Palestine were paying over $ 1,000 for an acre of parched soil.

The claim that the Arabs were being driven out was raised as early as the 1930s. This claim was investigated by the British, and rejected almost completely - and this at a time when British policy in Palestine was clearly moving from a pro-Zionist to a pro-Arab position. Two official British documents from the year 1937 deal with this claim. One is the report of the Peel Commission (Chapter 9, Par. 61), which relates that during the years 1920-1939, 688 Arab tenant farmers were removed from their land as a result of purchases made by the Jews. Five hundred twenty-six of the Arab farmers remained in some agricultural occupation, and four hundred received alternative plots of land in other locations. The second document is one of a series of memoranda prepared by the mandatory government and published in London (Colonial No. 133, p. 37). It contains the findings of the 1931 investigation of Lewis French, which totally refute the claim that the Zionist undertaking in Palestine caused the creation of "an entire landless people among the Palestinian Arabs". The memorandum notes that the total number of applications of registration as landless Arabs reached 3,271. Of these, the claims of 2,607 were rejected as not belonging to this category, and only 664 heads of families were recognized as having legitimate claims.

Approximately half this number - 347 - agreed to accept the government's offer of resettlement. The rest refused, either because they had found employment elsewhere, or because they were unaccustomed to the agricultural methods, such as irrigation, employed in the new locations, or because of other reasons. In his investigation of the hill country, where the Jewish purchases were minimal, Lewis French found that out of seventy-one Arab claims of eviction, sixty-eight were rejected (The Esco Foundation for Palestine, Inc., Vol. II, p. 716).

Finally… What was the land ownership situation when the State of Israel was established in 1948? According to the official data published by the outgoing British mandatory administration before the establishment of the State (Survey of Palestine, 1946), only 8.6% of the land was in fact owned by Jews, while over 70% was state land, which had passed from Turkish to British authority and now to Israel, the legal heir of the British Mandate. The remaining lands - 33% belonged to Arab landowners, and the Arab owners who hastened to obey the call of their leaders “to clear the way for the Arab armies, which would annihilate the Jewish State”, abandoned 16.9%. These landowners did not consider the possibility that the Jewish State would remain.

The key to the entire problem lies in that large percentage of state land, most of which was in the Negev - an unsettled area of approximately 12,557,00 Dunams, or close to 50% of the entire area (26,320,000) of mandatory Palestine. These lands had never been under Arab ownership, neither during the period of British rule nor even during the preceding Turkish regime, these were simply STATE LANDS .

The contention heard time and again from Arab propagandists - that 95% of the territory of Palestine had belonged to the Arabs - is, therefore, entirely without basis in fact...!

To those that think differently without any substantiation I say… No amount of Monday morning quarter backing is going to help your belated dreaming…
There was no ARAB country in the middle east called Palestine... the place was called the Ottoman Empire for 400 years until 1917 when the British Forces Liberated it from the Turks and received a Mandate to manage it… They governed it for the next 30 years until 1948..

The Brits recognized the right of the Jews to the Land of their forefathers...
Palestine Arab nationalism to whatever degree it is conscious ideal today, is a product of recent political currents. Until the 1920’s, no such national community had even existed in Palestine. This is why the Balfour Declaration and the League of Nations Mandates charged the Jews of the National Home with guaranteeing the civil and religious right of other inhabitants... (The Arabs, Christians, Druze, Circassians, Kurds, Armenians, Bosnians, Moghrabim [North Africans], Egyptians, Syrian, Bedouins... were the other inhabitants.)

No mention was made of other National Rights of other inhabitants..., as it was recognized that the only NATIONAL CLAIM to the Area was that of the Jews...!!

However, the FICTION of Palestine Arab Nationality is still being exploited. If the Palestinian Arabs were in fact a separate nationality, their anger should have been directed against Jordan and Egypt since these were the two countries that invaded duly “Reconstituted Israel in 1948”, and retained a substantial amount of Real Estate. (Jordan... Judea and Samaria and Egypt the Gaza area...) and never even considered creating a Palestinian Arab Entity there for nineteen years...

Now if you had an Atlas from let say from 1517 on to 1917 when the British took over... you would have noticed that the place was called “THE OTTOMAN EMPIRE” for FOUR HUNDRED years and NOTHING ELSE...!

There was NEVER a Palestine…! No independent Arab or Palestinian State ever existed in Palestine. When the distinguished Arab-American historian, Princeton University Prof. Philip Hitti, testified against partition before the Anglo-American Committee in 1946, he said: "There is no such thing as 'Palestine' in history, absolutely not. In fact, Palestine is never explicitly mentioned in the Qur'an, rather it is called "the holy lands" (al-Arad al-Muqaddash)

At that time; Palestinian Arabs did not view themselves as having a separate identity. When the First Congress of Muslim-Christian Associations met in Jerusalem in February 1919 to choose Palestinian representatives for the Paris Peace Conference, the following resolution was adopted, quote:-

We consider Palestine as part of Arab Syria, as it has never been separated from it at any time. National, religious, linguistic, natural, economic and geographical bonds connect us with it... Unquote.

In 1937, a local Arab leader, Auni Bey Abdul-Hadi, told the Peel Commission, which ultimately suggested the partition of Palestine: "There is no such country [as Palestine]! 'Palestine' is a term the Zionists invented! There is no Palestine in the Bible. Our country was for centuries part of Syria."

The representative of the Arab Higher Committee to the UN submitted a statement to the General Assembly in May 1947 that said, "Palestine was part of the Province of Syria" and that, "politically, the Arabs of Palestine were not independent in the sense of forming a separate political entity." A few years later, Ahmed Shuqeiri, later the chairman of the PLO, told the Security Council: "It is common knowledge that Palestine is nothing but southern Syria."

Palestinian Arab nationalism is largely a post World War I phenomenon that did not become a significant political movement until after 1967 Six-Day War [since the PLO was created by Egypt in 1964]... and Israel's liberation of Judea and Samaria (West Bank) from the occupying forces of Jordan.

 

Excellent paper! Well reasoned; informative; and factual. I have saved this and, I will use it in future discussions with those who wish to claim the whole "Palestinian" myth.

However, I was not discussing justifications or Arab mythology or Arab recalcitrance.
I was referring to facts on the ground; reality as it were....
There are several million Arabs and Arabs called Palestinians who are either Israeli citizens or, who are living in Israeli held territories.
And, they ain't leavin'.
A percentage of these Arabs are Islamist or secular death cult wackjobs and, another large percentage are, indeed, corrupt demagogues who feed off of, and nurture, the death cult wackjobs.
However, most people simply want to go along and get along; make enough money to live comfortably and feed their families. Most people would like to see their children better educated and better positioned in the world. And, this includes most Israeli Arabs and most Arabs called Palestinians who currently reside in Shomrom and Yehuda.
The legal niceties of who owned what and who owns what now - are, in reality, not particularly important. Israel is in control. Israel, for all practical purposes, owns Shomrom and Yehuda.
The Arabs called Palestinians and the rest of the Arab world may or may not eventually accept this Fact.
The question for Israel is not what are the legal ramifications of Arab "claims" (including all of the Arabs currently held in concentration camps in Syria and Lebanon for the sake of being called Palestinians), but what is Israel going to practically do with the million plus Arabs called Palestinians living within their borders?
The only way they are ever going to be "repatriated" is if G-d does it. Which is eminently possible but, I would not hold my breath waiting for G-d to solve the problems of the Secular Jewish State of Israel.
In the Secular Jewish State of Israel, these Arabs are not going to leave.
So - a way must be found to make them happy; productive people who do not pose a danger to Israel. Stam. Period.
Both the "two State" solution where Israel makes Yehuda and Shomrom Juden Frei and the idea that a million Arabs are going to move to the hellholes that are all the rest of Arab countries is pie in the sky and it's not happening by and by....

 

Probably you were buoyed with a quick response, you have used emotional terminologies i.e. [And, they ain't leavin'.]
Well Israel is repatriating Africans that sneaked in for whatever reason and the flow of these people has stopped.

I want to shorten this with the following... They ain't Jewish Nationals either, they are Jordanians, they will not stand erect to the sound and chant of the 'hatikvah hymn' and they will not swear allegiance to the State of Israel! THEY HAVE TO BE REPATRIATED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! If the dwarf king of Jordan Abdallah II is not willing to accept them, then the IDF will have to find a way militarily... This is the way an "independent" country behaves. No buts, what's and ifs are to be considered but action demands it... to be undecisive as you are will perpetrate the problem of multiplication...

The country has to decide if they are accepted citizens...
( A) Are they willing to swear allegiance to the Flag of Israel and send their kids to serve in the IDF?
(B) Did they request a permit from the Israeli authorities to build their homes?
(C) Do they pay taxes like any other Israeli?

If not .....................they ain't Israelis but fifth columnists and they have to go!

I will not discuss the ramifications, how when and where this is the duties of elected representatives.!

 

Please listen to this short clip in case you missed it.

http://www.politicalforum.com/middl...ian-state-within-israel-9.html#post1062270358

 

Sounds good to me.
Our only disagreement is that it appears as if you believe that a few million Arabs are not going to take this path and will still need to be forcibly "REPATRIATED."
In my humble opinion, it is going to be up to Israel to figure out a way to make those folk happy enough to want to become loyal citizens. Because there is no historical precedent for the Jewish State of Israel to forcibly remove a couple million Arabs...

 

First and foremost my gripe is against less than One Million Jordanians... 804 thousands and so, that followed the Jordanian Army and settled in a new land, not thinking for a moment that they would be dislodged. Reminds me of the 'Gold Rush' in American <Go west young man!!>...

It is not the duty of the people of Israel to make <Fifth Columnists> happy... we do not have the time and the patience to <DEPROGRAM> these people... Let them return home!
The Israeli Arabs are Israelis... good or bad is not the problem but as you said <time might heel> and the new progeny might be lead to realize the stupidity of their elders... (I had a chance to meet a few on my trip to Europe, they are slightly resistant but they were happy flaunting their Israeli Passports)... we were born in Israel we grew up there, we learned Hebrew we want to be part of it and enjoy its benefits... This is Israel! Not the way to deprogram and waste our efforts on brainwashed people who do not agree with the Jordanian authorities that left them there when their army returned home over the Jordan river. (May I refresh everyone's memory, those that built homes in Judea and Samaria did not buy their plot... they are still squatting on it!!!!!!!!!!!!!)

 

Your suspicions are groundless. The 700 000 Palestinians were ethnically cleansed, mainly by direct actions of the Zionist militia &#8230; but you know all of this. The Zionists did it by making gross examples of certain settlements in which they were guilty of war crimes. Deir Yassin springs to mid. Then they used propaganda, dropping leaflets (you can buy them on eBay) cajoling Arab and Christian Palestinians to get out. They force marched them out (Lod springs to mind). They mortared and bombarded their towns and villages. They poisoned the well water.

And, HB, you &#8220;suspect&#8221; that they left because their bank accounts were low. You deny that their 5 millennia-plus direct link to the land was so tenuous that they would happily leave all behind them. What a sick sense of reality. But I understand &#8230;. After the drubbing that you got on the Jordan = Palestine thread, I anticipated that you needed a moral boost. But what I DON'T understand is only hours after having been on the receiving end of that drubbing, you revert to insisting that the Palestinian Arabs came from surrounding territories by using "Repatriation is the word of the day". Your debating ethics are ..... *sigh* ... sad, to say the least.

 

Here are HBendor's quotes from historical works: [I have yet to check their authenticity, which I really need to do, given what we saw he did with the reports of the Palestine Commission and the population statistics in the thread "Jordan is Palestine"]

Yet the same HBendor has repeatedly claimed that the fellahin (the Palestinians) only arrived in what is now Israel AFTER the success of the early Jewish colonisers arrived (i.e. early 1920s). Yet here he is, showing ample evidence that they were well-established as far back at 1838.

HB, you seem to want your evidence-cake AND to eat it. Which is it. Were they always there or did they arrive mainly after WW1?

Oooops - sorry - that latter option must be a sensitive subject with you since we have just seen that you fiddled the population growth numbers for Palestine in the thread "Jordan is Palestine". So I presume you accept your own evidence and acknowledge the Ottoman statistics for Syria-Palestina in the mid-1800s - some 400 000 Palestinians were resident.

 

First according to UNRWA they were approximately. 450,000 Arabs for there was no Palestine then, and mind you, there will not be one in the near or far FUTURE...

Your defamation of the sole Jewish country on earth and that you know zilch about... is the saddest!

Take your Shyster book to the barbecue pit and Indian dance around it.

 

What!!?? That piece of drivel was your best defence of your 2-cake duplicitous 'reasoning'?
I can safely ignore it. Muslim Palestinians plus a minority of Christian Palestinians have occupied Palestine for centuries while the Jews went walkabout. Live with it. It is just SUCH a self-evident fact, and no amout of meta-posting will change that.

You really haven't had a good week, have you, HB?

 

I have a good week when I do not read your crapola... Since I need future good weeks I decided to tip toe through the droppings...

 

May I post here, too? I've got a good article and a picture as well:

 

Alrighty, that went o.k.

Now, here is one more you all will like as well:

Not quite the same as the one above, or is it?

I wonder if the Arabs around it know about these plans.
They better move over in order to avoid bloodshed, or get ready for the fight of their lives!

Does it look like the Israelis are after the control of oil and whatever else is in the ground of these countries?? What do you think?

One has to leave it to the Jews how well and patiently they do their planning!
I'm starting to get a little worried since we in Canada also have lots of oil and gas. It probably is not the cottages they are after, but our resources.