Trump arrives in Saudi Arabia - No Bowing

If you're claiming it's 100% legal in all of KSA for females to be without an escort, everywhere, cite it.

 

Saudi Arabia: 'Unofficial' Guardianship Rules Banned | Human Rights ...

https://www.hrw.org/news/2017/.../saudi-arabia-unofficial-guardianship-rules-banned
May 9, 2017 - (Beirut) – Saudi Arabia's King Salman issued an April 17, 2017 order to all ... Saudi Arabialaw clearly and directly enforces guardianship ...

Excerpt:
The two-page order, which Human Rights Watch reviewed, forbids government agencies from requiring a male guardian’s consent for women seeking services “unless there is a regulatory obligation for this request.” The order’s requirement for government agencies to compile a list of all procedures requiring male guardian approval, opens the door to reviewing, amending or cancelling these requirements. Saudi Arabia should use the three-month period to abolish all remaining vestiges of the guardianship system and ensure that women are treated equally in both law and practice, Human Rights Watch said.

The order also says that government agencies should work to provide transportation for women seeking services. Women are barred from driving in Saudi Arabia.

 

From your own source.

 

Your hero Trump used to call Saudi Arabia the biggest cause of 9/11. Now all of a sudden he is kissing up to and doing a curtsey to its leadership while supplying it with dangerous weaponry that may well be used against NATO some day.

 

You mean the same medal Pres. Obama and Bush rec'd.

 

Well, we dont have public beheadings in the town square for trivial offences, but that was not my question. The question was are you in support of harsh punishment by government to deter crime?

 

Yes.. I hate the death penalty but I think it is necessary. You think public executions are worse than the electric chair behind closed doors, or lethal injection?

 

As usual, you have no idea what you are talking about and claim to be an expert in.

https://www.international.gc.ca/cil-cai/country_insights-apercus_pays/ci-ic_sa.aspx?lang=eng

KIssing and holding hands w the opposite sex however can get you into trouble.

 

Part of that was correct. Touching the forehead to the shoulder of a "superior" or elder is a sign of respect and affection.

Male friends do hold hands but not with Americans.

How many years did you spend in KSA and where?

 

Margot I was referring to the 2 bit dicator Raul Castro snubbing Obama at the airport on Obama's Cuba visit, not King King Salman which as you pointed out was a reasonable thing to do with the King's health issues.

 

http://www.cnn.com/2017/05/21/polit...ed:+rss/cnn_allpolitics+(RSS:+CNN+-+Politics)

Trump's new tune on Islam unconvincing, experts in Mideast say

By Angela Dewan, CNN
Updated 9:49 PM ET, Sun May 21, 2017
Trump radical islamic terrorism Muslim speech_00000000

Trump: Muslims must confront 'Islamic terror' 01:13
Story highlights
Experts from Jordan, Iran and Lebanon react to Trump's speech
"It will be met with deep skepticism in the Muslim world," says one

(CNN)President Donald Trump's speech Sunday will likely be met with skepticism and frustration in the Muslim world, according to experts in the Middle East who said his sudden shift in tone on Islam was unconvincing.

Trump gave his speech in Saudi Arabia, where he ditched his hard-line rhetoric from the 2016 election campaign and instead called Islam "one of the world's great faiths."
Here's what experts in three Muslim-majority countries in the Middle East thought of the speech.
Jordan
Former Jordanian Justice Minister Ibrahim Aljazy said Trump's shift in tone toward Muslims was notable.

Trump to Muslim world: Drive out terrorists 01:00
"Trump has moved from 'Islam hates us' to a friendlier approach of common values and shared interests," he said.
But Aljazy said Jordanians and others in the Muslim world had hoped Trump would deliver clearer answers on American policy in the region.
"I would not call it a constructive tone since that people in the region, particularly Jordanians, are looking for a more clear approach to the Israeli policies and an end to settlements, which may pave the way for a true two-state solution and end of occupation," he said.
"Referencing 'Islamic' terrorist organizations only will not be appreciated by the vast majority of people in the region when other forces are carrying out acts of aggression, especially as Arabs and Muslims are the prime victims of these organizations," he said.
Trump also failed to acknowledge the importance of democracy and the rule of law in putting an end to the root causes of terrorism, Aljazy said.
Iran
Hamed Mousavi, a political science professor at Iran's Tehran University, said that Trump's attempts to strike a friendlier tone in Saudi Arabia were hard to swallow.
"It will be met with deep skepticism in the Muslim world because Trump has been hostile and offensive to Muslims -- with his Muslim travel ban, for example. All they've seen so far from Donald Trump is a lot of hostility," he said.

Will Trump hit reset with Muslims?
Mousavi said that by making lucrative arms deals with Saudi Arabia, the United States has lost its ability to put pressure on Riyadh to reform Wahhabism, a fundamentalist brand of Islam that insists on a strict interpretation of the Koran.
Wahhabism is the country's dominant faith, and in 2013, the European Parliament published a report dubbing the religion as a main cause of global terrorism.
On Saturday, Trump and Saudi King Salman bin Abdulaziz Al Saud signed an arms deal worth $109 billion, part of a broader $350 billion package of economic and defense investments over the next decade.
"I think the US needs to decide what it wants from this relationship with Saudi Arabia. Does it want the economic benefits? Or is it to fight terrorism and to fight an extreme form of Islam?" Mousavi said. "These two agendas don't fit with each other. If Saudi Arabia buys this relationship, the US will be in no position to lecture them."
Lebanon

Karim Makdisi, an associate professor of international politics at The American University of Beirut, said the Trump administration's policies on the Middle East have in most respects been a continuation of the Obama administration's.
But Trump's speech on Sunday marked some provocative changes, he said. Most notable was Trump's open condemnation of Iran as a nation that funds and harbors terrorists.
Trump's speech to Muslim world a tough sell
Trump's speech to Muslim world a tough sell
"What this speech appears to signal is a potential shift away from Obama's more pragmatic policy towards Iran that resulted, most notably, in the nuclear agreement," Makdisi said. "Trump's vitriolic attack on Iran was matched only by his lavish praise of the Saudi king. Given the bitter Saudi-Iranian regional conflict that includes both proxy wars and sectarian bating, this shift may potentially lead to yet further violence and instability."
Makdisi pointed out that Trump equated Hezbollah, a Lebanese political and military group made up mostly of Shia Muslims, with ISIS and al Qaeda. Hezbollah was conceived in the early 1980s primarily to fight against Israeli occupation in southern Lebanon.

Trump: Terror a battle between good and evil 02:46
"This is irresponsible on many levels," Makdisi said of Trump's comments.
"With Israeli rhetoric increasing against Lebanon, this does not bode well. The Lebanese will not put much stock in yet another grand speech, but they will keep an eye out for Trump's position towards Israel's threats against Lebanon, and any shift in US policy towards Syria."
He said Trump's description of a good-versus-evil conflict essentially made it official that the United States would back a Sunni force allied with Israel against terror groups.
"If this rhetoric is translated into action, the region is in for much bloodshed rather than the long-term 'peace' Trump spoke of," Makdis said. "Ultimately, let us observe what the Trump administration policy will be with regard to Iran -- this is the real litmus test."
Palestinian militant group Hamas called Trump "biased" toward Israel after he labeled the organization a terrorist group in his speech.
In a press release, Hamas said it "denounces US President Trump's fabrications in front of the Arab and Muslim kings and leaders. Trump included the Islamic Resistance movement Hamas in the terrorism list. He denied the Palestinian people the right to resist, which is a legitimate and sacred right to liberate the land and holy places."

 

Sigh.

Men who are meeting for the first time or know each other casually will shake hands; men who are close friends or family will also add a kiss on each cheek. Women friends hug and kiss in greeting. Men and women do not greet each other in public. Even in business situations, women should never extend a hand to be shaken.
http://traveltips.usatoday.com/saudi-arabia-culture-protocol-16306.html
Meeting & Greeting

Men shake hands. Good friends may greet each other with a handshake and a then kiss on each cheek, sometimes three.
It is custom to hold the handshake for a lot longer than expected in Western culture.
Women generally hug and kiss close friends and within business will general shake hands or place hands on hearts.
Men and women would not greet each other in public if not from the same family. This does not apply to foreigners.
http://www.commisceo-global.com/country-guides/saudi-arabia-guide

There are several occasions in Saudi Arabian culture when formally structured language is practiced. When addressing elders, it is imperative to always use their correct title, such as Mr., Mrs., Dr., etc. This is representation of the high level of respect paid to elders in Saudi Arabia. When members of the same sex greet one another, a handshake or kiss on each cheek is accompanied by saying:

"As Salaamu 'Alaykurn."

Peace be upon you.

Such occasions as holidays, marriages, and visiting the ill all have traditional, formal sayings that are most appropriate. When greeting the parents of a newborn child, it is customary to say:

"Yetrabba Be Ezzekum, Waa Allah Yajaluhoh Min El Thorriah Al Salehah."
http://dpuadweb.depauw.edu/multitud...uralPortfolios/Saudi_Arabia/Communication.htm

Etc ad nausium. The canadian govt, usa today, every travel customs site on the planet is wrong... but Margot is yet again infallably correct.

This is generally where you disappear from the thread.

 

he's leaning over to have a medal put on him, genius

 

He's leaning over to have a medal put on him. You can't tell the difference between that and bowing as Obama did ?
Those straws you're grasping at must be getting really heavy at this point, Ron.

 

LOL if @Ronstar can't tell the difference, we're going to have to reconsider how we weigh his opinions.

 

yes, it is - there's a big difference;

On the right photo, he lowers his head to have a medal placed on him.
On the left, he is bowing during greeting a foreign leader.

 

It's like his views on Seth Rich;

He either was either murdered in a random act or ......
Or ..... but but but Russia !

 

yes, all three lowered their heads to get a medal.
Only Obama bowed when greeting their king.

 

What is sad is that you either want foreign intervention and chaos and or think that the mid east is just a bunch of buddies sitting around a campfire singing kumbahya while toasting marshmallows. Historically the mid east has always had tribal style warfare and eight years of Obama/Kerry/Clinton doctrine made it even worse and no amount of boiler plate from the Move On media and their shysters will change that. At least Trump is attempting to get the mid east to police themselves instead of continuing the failures of the last umpteen years which has not worked. Seems like some here really want wars and suffering that has persisted in the middle east for decades now.

 

Instead Trump immediately flashed the thumbs up to cameras the instant he got off the plane even though his own briefing documents said that was the equivalent of giving someone the middle finger in SA.

The dude can't even be bothered to read a ****ing 14 bullet point memo on local taboos and ****s it up less than 5 minutes into the country.

 

If Trump was half the man he claims to be, he would have told him to hand him the medal so he can put it on himself rather than looking like a hypocrite.

But I know Trump lovers don't care, because their God Trump did this.

 

Pres Obama is just as tall and didn't have to bow that low. Now what?

 

Pres. Trump curtsied, how many men do that.

Pres. Obama wasn't to arrogant to think that honoring another countries customs was beneath him.

 

So. . .you really believe that providing billions of armements to one party will help the Middle East peace process? On what planet do you live?