Trump negotiating a new Panama Canal treaty for the American people

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by 19Crib, Dec 27, 2024.

  1. Mitty

    Mitty Well-Known Member

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    That's Panama's choice who they want to do business with.

    And should Planet America threaten to use nukes on the Panamanians like Nixon wanted to do to support the French Colonialists against the Vietnamese?
     
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2024
  2. Jolly Penguin

    Jolly Penguin Well-Known Member

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    Don't forget Canada and Mexico... And why stop there? It's very wrong to compare Trump to Hitler though. Trump doesn't want to conquer anything, right?
     
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2024
  3. HockeyDad

    HockeyDad Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Against the Panamanians? How about sending a local sheriffs department? That is about all it would take. Check your history books. The last time we toppled their government, it took all of a week (more like a day).

     
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2024
  4. Mitty

    Mitty Well-Known Member

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    Which is why Panama should ask China for protection.
     
  5. Jolly Penguin

    Jolly Penguin Well-Known Member

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    Toppling their government is one thing. Keeping the people there from then uprising and causing absolute mayhem for the Americans trying to then run the Panama Canal is quite another. Think the war in Iraq. Mission Accomplished in one week, sure. Then what? A decade or more of hell for all involved, including the American soldiers now in yet another endless war.
     
  6. Cybred

    Cybred Well-Known Member

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    No we don't, no they won't.
     
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  7. philosophical

    philosophical Well-Known Member

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    Trump, Vance and it looks like those around them are demonstrable morons.
    Vance said the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland will be a nuclear armed Islamic state.
    This is totally provable, he said it in a speech out loud to people listening.
    Anyway Americans voted Trump in, so presumably they are fully behind his desire for conflict with Panama, Denmark….and Canada and Mexico if you like.
    Trump already mused that you could stop a hurricane with a nuclear weapon (as well as sorting out Covid by drinking bleach) so with such weapons he is a boy itching to play with the toys.
    America is a place armed to the teeth with a population who voted to use those weapons to conquer other places.
    When Trump nukes Copenhagen it ain’t going to be nice, but to all those who voted for him it will seem justified.
     
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  8. Jolly Penguin

    Jolly Penguin Well-Known Member

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    Believe it or not, plenty of them voted for him thinking he would bring world peace and start no wars.
     
  9. Zorro

    Zorro Well-Known Member

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    That's fake news. He said no such thing.

    Bribed Joe told this lie even differently.

    upload_2024-12-30_8-47-13.png
     
  10. Pro_Line_FL

    Pro_Line_FL Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    He did suggest injecting disinfectant

     
  11. Zorro

    Zorro Well-Known Member

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    Fake News. He did not suggest that people inject bleach.

    And, do you ever post on topic?
     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2024
  12. Pro_Line_FL

    Pro_Line_FL Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It's right there around the 40 sec mark. As for the topic, I have said plenty about the Panama Canal, but I responded to your post about the bleach injections. It was you who derailed the discussion, not me.

    ""And then I see the disinfectant where it knocks it out in a minute. One minute. And is there a way we can do something like that, by injection inside or almost a cleaning?" - Donald J Trump

    The Constitution does not give presidents power to terminate treaties.

    Noriega died years ago.
     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2024
  13. conservaliberal

    conservaliberal Well-Known Member

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    Old 'pineapple face' Noriega? He's been dead for over seven years....
     
  14. Zorro

    Zorro Well-Known Member

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    I responded to @philosophical derailment.

    Your claim is fake news. He never suggested that anyone inject bleach. Now are you going to return to the topic or keep derailing it?

    'the Panama Canal is one of the engineering achievements of the last millennia.'

    'And we built it, we paid for it, and we operated it for many years. And then, in a tremendous act of generosity, which was probably foolish, Jimmy Carter gave the canal back to the Panamanians. But it wasn't just a free gift. There are conditions, that the canal remain neutral.'

    'And so what the Panamanians have done -- and, generally, we love the Panamanians. They're good people. They're friends of America. But they gave the ports on both ends of the canal to the Chinese. And even The New York Times is saying, which has been an apologist for China for years -- is saying that the Chinese are committing espionage, or they could shut down the canal without military efforts just using these Hong Kong companies that control the canal.'

    'And on top of that, they're raising the prices on American shipping. So, 75 percent of the commerce that goes to the canal ends up at American ports or departs from American ports. And they're ripping us off.'

    'And so the idea that they have given the canal to China, basically, in essence, and are charging us high prices, and that the Chinese are taking that and using that money to build their own military up, that doesn't work for America anymore. We're not going to be chumps. We love the Panamanian people. We're happy to have them run the canal.'

    'But they can't charge exorbitant prices to American taxpayers ultimately, and consumers, and they can't let the Chinese have access to both ends of the canal and run the thing. That violates the neutrality provision of the Panama Canal treaty, under which they got the canal back.'

    https://www.realclearpolitics.com/v...serious_about_greenland_and_panama_canal.html
     
  15. Zorro

    Zorro Well-Known Member

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    After doing time in a US prison following OPERATION JUST CAUSE.
     
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  16. philosophical

    philosophical Well-Known Member

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    Several times the piece you have quoted says 'they can't'.
    Well they can...or else????
    What's to stop it?
     
  17. Pro_Line_FL

    Pro_Line_FL Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Well, I quoted him saying, so there is that, and then there is denial.

    Nixon & Ford negotiated the treaty for 3 years, and Senate passed it with 2/3rd majority. Carter sighed it. Our presence there was becoming very unpopular not only in Panama, but around the regions as whole. Today it belongs to Panama, so who participated in building it, be it Spain France US is irreverent to todays situation. We have zero rights to it, and Trump is behaving like a petulant with his demands.

    As for the rest of your post, if you insist on believing lies about China operating the canal, or that Americans pay more than others, then so be it. I am not going to repeat the facts. You can choose to believe anything you want.

    This seems to be going in the same direction, - take what we want by use of military power. It's a sure way to drive Panama and other countries towards China and Russia, which might he Trump's goal anyway
     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2024
  18. Zorro

    Zorro Well-Known Member

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    They must remain in compliance with the treaty that turned our canal over to them to operate.
     
  19. Zorro

    Zorro Well-Known Member

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    No. You didn't. And are you really going to insist on continuing to post off topic?

    This topic is on the Panama Canal Treaty not the Fake News Lie where the fake news liars repeatedly claimed that Trump told folks to inject themselves with bleach.

    Bribed Joe has repeated this lie in the last 6 months, during the debate where Trumped knocked him completely out of the race.

    upload_2024-12-30_14-37-29.png

    If you want to traffick in lies and debunked lies and smears can you please take it somewhere else rather than repeatedly sidetracking this topic with the nonsense?
     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2024
  20. Mitty

    Mitty Well-Known Member

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    Did Trump use disinfectants to treat his COVID infection, or did he use UV light?
     
  21. philosophical

    philosophical Well-Known Member

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    Panama is not a client state of America.
    If they say they have honoured the treaty regarding a canal in their country to every dot and comma, then that is that.
    What do America do? Take it to an international court of treaties to sort out?
    Or does America use deadly force to get it’s way?
     
  22. conservaliberal

    conservaliberal Well-Known Member

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    Hint: "Operation Just Cause", 1989.

    In somewhat the same way that Saddam Hussein would learn years later, Panamanian dictator, Manuel Noreiga learned the hard way that just because you were our 'buddy' at one time doesn't mean you will remain our 'buddy' always....

    Truth? We never should have given the ****ing canal away in the first place! :roll:
     
  23. philosophical

    philosophical Well-Known Member

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    I assume from what you write that you think America will take over Panama by the use of deadly force, the just cause being about money.
     
  24. conservaliberal

    conservaliberal Well-Known Member

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    No, you assume incorrectly. Not quite sure how you derived an understanding like that from what I wrote, but, well....

    Trump isn't going to "take over Panama". What he'll be 'angling for' is a reduction in the charges levied by the Panamanians for the passage of American-flagged shipping. It's just business....
     
  25. Pro_Line_FL

    Pro_Line_FL Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Would it "just business" for Mexico to demand a cut of Texas oil "OR ELSE", because the land used to belong to them. Trump is saying "or else he wants the Panama canal returned to the US" . That is not "just business", that is a threat and a territorial demand. I don't see the point of defending and/or justifying such language.
     

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