U.S. focuses on training Ukrainian troops to use less ammo

- Because Russia is one of the main reasons for our severe yearly defense budget and spending a mere 3 percent of that yearly budget to disarm Russia is a no brainer?
- Because we made a promise to assist Ukraine if it were aggressed upon when we signed the Budapest Memorandum?
- Because allow a nuclear power to aggress and conquer a non nuclear power sets a dangerous presidence?
- Because Russia is not going to stop with Ukraine and if we allowed them to roll into and take Ukraine unchecked they would move into Poland or the Baltics next? And that would trigger article 5 and a nuclear war?
- Because the resources Ukraine offers the world is better to not be controlled by an expansionist authoritarian regime to use as leverage?
- Because this shows China a united front with Nato? Perhaps giving them a moment of pause to not invade Taiwan?
- lowest on the list but still valid, it's the right thing to do morally?

 

If its about MORALS... then we should save every country under attack including dozens in Africa... right?
I must admit that the Budapest Memorandum is a good argument.
3 percent of our defense budget? Can you prove your statement? I believe you are off... by A LOT.
Sooo.. America IS the World's Policeman in your view? Even as our own country is being eaten up by inflation?
Soooo... we should spend our national treasure on "what ifs" that might or might not happen in Poland or the Baltics? Should we use tea leaves, Tarot Cards, or a crystal ball to determine defense strategy?
We got along without Ukraine's resources throughout our history. Why are they now so critical?
Anything we do with Ukraine does NOT show a united front with NATO. Ukraine isn't IN NATO.

 

I'm not arguing for or against US involvement. I'm arguing Putin is a schmuck.

 

We all agree with THAT.

 

Why don't you start discussing with intelligence, not government-fed propaganda. You've done the easy part, keyboard warrior

 

That's ****ing dumb. Any unbiased listener of the Nuland tape, taking into account all of what was happening, as well as how it turned out, knows damn well who was behind the 2014 Coup.

The Crimeans held a referendum when no government existed in "the ukraine". They voted to leave, just as they did back in the '90s (after which they were invaded by ukraine), only this time they also voted to re-join Russia, as they were a part of for centuries. Kosovo ring a bell?

Georgia? You looked on a map buddy? Ain't no part of Russia in Georgia. Bush Jr done warped your head. And the same shithead that bombed his own people in Ossetia, Mikheil Saakashvili, later fled to the undemocratic government of the ukraine where he became governor of the Odessa Oblast, right after they burned a bunch of people (ethnic Russians) alive. Fine people you are referencing...must make you proud.

 

If it involves weakening our main enemy? Yup.

I was off by 3 percent. Our defense budget is 800.6B We've given 50B at this point...that's 6.25 percent. Not a biggie.

inflation is killing everyone. It will calm down as a new normal minus Russia works itself out.
I think I prefer democracy and the western style of governance to that of authoritarian governance from the East. (Russia, China, Iran, North Korea)

Moldova has just made the claim of Russian interference in their governance. Not a shocker. If the thought that Putin doesn't have aspirations that expands past Ukraine is to not know Putin.

Top 5 in wheat, top of the world in sunflower oil, top 5 in corn, 3rd in the world in barley. Basically the world's top producer of wheat is trying to gain control of the world's 5th largest producer of wheat. wheat = food. You want Russia to have that much global trade muscle?

The military aid and sanctions are a double whammy of which could DE incentivize China absolutely.

 

World said no.

in 2014
https://news.un.org/en/story/2014/03/464812
Backing Ukraine’s territorial integrity, UN Assembly declares Crimea referendum invalid

And still in 2020
https://press.un.org/en/2020/ga12295.doc.htm
Resolutions Calling on Withdrawal of Forces from Crimea, Establishing Epidemic Preparedness International Day among Texts Adopted by General Assembly
"including one urging the Russian Federation to withdraw from Crimea and another that declared 27 December as an International Day of Epidemic Preparedness."

 

Now Lets replace Ukraine with "Palestine"


Backing Palestine’s territorial integrity, UN Assembly declares Israel a scum bucket .. violator of international law.

UN Resolutions Calling on Withdrawal of Forces-Illegal Settlements from Palestine

Think we need to be sending the Palestinians some HIMAR's to defend against aggression of this Fascist xenophobic nation .. committed too many war crimes to count over the years..

in the meantime .. Biden commits crimes against humanity .. blocking much needed aid and relief to Syria 45,000 dead from the earthquake and counting ..

Sup TT .. what say thee

 

Looks like it may be the Russians who are running low.
Russia Running Short on Ammunition Sources Claim
https://www.overtdefense.com › 2023/01/06 › is-russia-...

Jan 6, 2023 — “The Russian army is experiencing a serious shortage of ammunition against the background of active supplies of ammunition to our enemy,” ...

 

Sure....lotsa vatniks don't want to get their asses shot off....Bill.

Exodus outta Mafiosi is starting en masse.

 

I believe I answered that once AARguy...

Many Americans want Mexicans to gather their veggies outta their gardens....for pennies basically.

We have numerous NATO bases in Europe....if the dumb Mafiosi start popping off missiles....well need to clobber them...but good.

Does that answer your question.....you're welcome.

 

There is where Bill closes his eyes and says it's not real.

 

Two different situations.

Plus I'm here to talk about Ukraine. If you want to talk about Palestine, create a Palestine thread. Otherwise come back to the table with more than a what about ism

 

Yeah, I want to decide national security policy on barley and sunflowers. Makes sense to me... SOMEBODY GET A NET !!!!
$50 Billion is a drop in the bucket to you. Not to me.
Inflation is killing everyone because of Biden's war on the oil industry. It has little to do with RFussia or Ukraine.
I prefer democracy... you know... where you aren't forced to wear a mask, close your business, have your kids learn at a laptop at home in their pajamas, you don't get forced to get an injection you don't want...
I'm sure Putin has aspirations beyond Ukraine. So... do you want to start punishing people with "aspirations" for robbing a liquor store... or do you want to wait until they actually do it?

 

NATO has nothing to do with Ukrainian borders so your answer is non-responsive.
So every illegal... the MILLIONS... came here to pick lettuce? Really?

 

This is about Ukraine .. did you not understand ? This is about abiding by international law .. did you not want Russia to abide by the rules .. rules which you posted via the UN ? Yes .. I believe you did.

Tell us then why ? Why should Russia obey the rules as you decry .. when doing so would be a lie ?

Throwing out the rule book has everything to do with Russia not obeying the Rules.. so why .. why should Russia abide by the rule book .. why would any nation abide .. Lets hear it .. the floor is yours .. why should any nation abide by that nonsense from the UN you posted ?

 

Well...not everyone ....I'm using my buddies line who lives near Brownsville,TX...he's in construction....builds garages,decks,roofing, ....so, if he needs some extra "help" the odd time he rounds up a few wetbacks....not hard to do....and usually the buggers are quite willing, and they're all looking for a slice of the American dream.

NATO will have something to do when Ukraine is a member....

 

Can your buddy employ 2 million people? Wow...

Ukraine in NATO? Is that before or after hell freezes over?

 

wheat. = food. Russia would be able to control the bulk of who gets ****ing food throughout the world. You want that? You better not because you know damn good and well they would leverage that dependency for further expansion and influence.

Since I like democracy and not the shitbag authoritarian style governance of Russia...it stands to reason where my loyalties are.

Besides all the other reasons I listed you are bitching about our defense budget which is money already spent. You are not "saving" 50B by choosing to not assist. It would just be spent further arming ourselves on the off chance we would have to deal with...China or Russia.

Instead you are investing it in Ukraine while disarming the world's second most powerful army...

So far you haven't explained an argument as to why we shouldn't.

 

My buddy could only wish....


Ukraine in NATO???....sooner than you think.

 

HAMAS fires missiles into Israel which causes Israel to invade Hamas. Ukraine wasn't firing missiles into Moscow now was it? Russia created a situation by arming and strengthening a separatist movement in Eastern Ukraine to give it the excuse to do exactly what its doing right now.

Two VERY different situations.

 

Are you pretending or are you really this unable to understand .. this is not about Hamas firing missiles .. this is about breaking the rules .. annexing land that is not yours .. which you deserve having rockets at you for .. a whole lot more than Hamas fired .. more like what the freedom fighters in Ukraine fired .. and more is what you should get for such Violation . Don't you agree ! ..

 

I don't see Russia invading anything more. Heck, its getting its butt kicked in the Ukraine... without any NATO forces at all. The only threat Russia presents is using up all our weapons so we'll have nothing to defend Taiwan with but spitballs. Personally, I believe that was the goal from the start. China's a great market for Russia (heck, it sure is a great market for the US). A word from Ji to act stupid in Ukraine and keep eating up US war stocks of weapons and such and its a done deal. Russia has acted like it didn't really want to win in Ukraine from the start.

$50B is a severe cut when it specifically targets weapons that can't be replaced overnight.

 

Ya I'm not going to defend Israel's taking of Palestine land...but Hamas isn't a threat to global hegemony like Russia is. So right now I'm more focused on making Russia heel and disarm. Because again...**** bag authoritarian expansionist regime.