US voices concern over UK exit from EU

Are you Scottish?

 

The US of Arse can take a running jump. Sod all to do with you lot.

 

Brilliant!

 

Don't be fooled.

There is a widening poverty gap there too, they are not immune.

You should know as well as I do (sadly), that it is the countries with the biggest and best guns, that tends to really call the shots, in the end.

There are only two countries that have serious muscle that way, in Europe.

And neither of them are Germany. Rest assured, if your elites could choose to have EITHER Britain or Germany as an ally, your elites would choose Britian. Not for any romatic reasons, but for the simple reason I cited. Like it or not, that is how your high up's measure how seriously a country should be taken - by the scale of it's hardware, it's history in battle, and it's capacity to wage war. I wish it were not the measure, but it is.

I am more than happy to do a like for like comparison between what Germany have, and what we have. I did it before, on another thread. I am sure William may have seen it, it is was pretty extensive. In short - they have nothing that is superior to us. Nothing. Not in that respect.

The only other country in Europe that is a serious power that way is France. They certainly have the hardware. But what the French have always lacked, and this is something you cannot buy - is the collective courage. Sorry, but they have just never had it. Utterly useless surrender monkey's in WW2, in which we fought a war, against all logic, against Germany. A war which, btw, bankrupted our country, destroyed the Empire, and cost the lives of millions of good men, on both sides. And yes, I know the US came in after years, but until that point, precisely which European countries had resisted all attempts by Germany to invade?

Who said No Surrender, and who were the surrender monkey's?

 

I'm British.

 

Sorry, but that is just outright crazy.

You think things are mad now?

You have no idea.

 

The interests of the Scottish people will be best served as an independent nation within the EU. I'm thinking of moving up to Glasgow. England is a dead horse, particularly with the tories at the helm.

 

I am Scottish and I entirely disagree.(with the EU part)

I have stated my reasons, thus no use repeating them.

 

EU was a US project and they will take it at heart if the Brits spoil it .

EU bankrupted the south and most of the east , it is a union of plutocrats for plutocrats and it's main focus is capitalist gain against the interests of the people. The whole "peace and security" thing is a lie , back in 96 we came very close to war with Turkey after they violated our borders , what the union did? NOTHING !
European "integration" is mostly bigger banks ruling smaller ones and countries have no say.
The whole joke about "Germany supporting the south" is very funny since now the Germans own most of our debt so what they do is giving us money as loan , taking it back as loan repayment but with added interest .

UK shouldn't just leave EU they must **** ASAP to save whatever can be saved .

 

The Europhiles are typically old school conservatives. They fear what they do not know. We are in it together from my point of view. We cannot go backwards, only forwards.

 

An old school conservative would not be a 'Europhile'.

 

All of this.

Bloody well said, mate.

 

Are you guys meaning Eurosceptics?

 

Sorry, yes I for one meant Eurosceptics.

Here is an interesting opinion, 6 months old but revealing that nothing really changes.

This makes sense to me: "Perhaps the British are, simply, by temperament an island nation whose psychology reflects its geography, consigned forever to Europe's outer edge. Perhaps De Gaulle – who, after all, spent time "over here" – was essentially right about Britain's otherness".
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices...m-not-afraid-of-an-eu-referendum-7917818.html

 

Here is another interesting piece:

"Over the past year, as the Euro crisis has intensified, there has been a really interesting revelation – which is that Europhiles and Eurosceptics are not that different from each other. In fact, Europhiles and Eurosceptics are driven by very similar impulses, by similar anti-democratic instincts.

Both of these groups seem keen to absolve national governments of responsibility, to absolve nation states of responsibility for political and economic chaos.

Did the EU kill democracy? – No

The Europhile does it by kowtowing to Brussels, calling upon EU institutions to do more to save Europe. And the Eurosceptic does it by blaming the EU for almost everything that goes wrong, treating Brussels as a kind of Death Star that has sucked decency from every inch of Europe.

The Europhile tends to have blind faith in the EU, seeing it as the solution to every problem, while the Eurosceptic has a blinkered dislike of the EU, seeing it as the cause of every problem. What they share in common is a belief that responsibility lies with the EU. Both the depiction of the EU as the saviour of Europe and the depiction of it as the destroyer of Europe are underpinned by an instinct to say: “National governments are not to blame for what has gone wrong.”

In answer to the question ‘Did the EU kill democracy?’, I would say ‘No, it didn’t’. The EU is better understood as the end product of the death of democracy in Europe, a creation of national governments that had given up on the ideas of sovereignty and democracy. The EU follows the demise of European democracy, rather than instigating it.

The real driving force behind the EU over the past 40 years was the cowardice and opportunism of national governments, not the sinister ambitions of Brussels or Berlin. National political leaders who felt increasingly estranged from their own populations fashioned a post-sovereign institution that they could effectively hide in.

A good example of this came in the late 1990s, when the British government accepted the European ruling that the age of consent for homosexuals should be reduced from 18 to 16. That is something the government wanted to do anyway, but because it believed it would be controversial, it effectively allowed Europe to make the decision on its behalf. The benefit of the EU is that it allowed governments to take action without having to bother with pesky public debate or with taking moral responsibility.

Avoiding responsibility

Of course, the downsides to insulated decision-making are enormous and profound. Because the more national governments insulated themselves from their publics, the more incapable they became of exercising real leadership. The more they took refuge in EU institutions, the more out-of-touch and irrational they became.

We had an early warning of this during the Icelandic volcanic eruption in 2010, when political leaders basically went crazy, grounding aeroplanes and bringing Europe to a standstill. That was a direct consequence of their self-insulation, and their subsequent inability to engage with reality or show leadership.

The dangers of self-insulation can be seen even more dramatically in the Euro-crisis. No politician in Europe has the first clue how to deal with the crisis, precisely because every politician in Europe has spent recent decades avoiding making serious decisions, avoiding taking responsibility, avoiding being leaders. The growth of the ‘EU outlook’, of the idea that political leadership is too hard and technocratic decision-making is preferable, has directly worsened the Euro crisis.

But where the Eurosceptics get it wrong is in their treatment of Brussels as the single-handed destroyer of democracy, as a rampaging beast chewing up Little Englanders, Irish farmers, poor Greeks. Because the key dynamic in the formation of the EU was always national governments offering up political authority to EU institutions and disavowing their own sovereignty.

A schizophrenic attitude

Eurosceptics who point the finger of blame at ‘Bad Brussels’ are not that different from Europhiles who bow before ‘Good Brussels’. We’re now seeing the rise of a respectable form of Euroscepticism. From President Hollande in France to SYRIZA in Greece, many politicians now berate Brussels for ruining Europe.

But these attacks on Brussels are also designed to get national governments off the hook. When Hollande presents France as a victim of EU decisions, he’s playing the same game as those governments which once warmly welcomed EU decisions – he’s trying to avoid having his national institutions held to account for what has happened in France.

This schizophrenic attitude towards the EU is best summed up in the way Angela Merkel is now treated. I am almost starting to feel sorry for Merkel. She is depicted by some as a Hitler-style witch who has wrecked Europe. But she is held up by others as the potential saviour of Europe, with leaders calling upon her to save the Eurozone and to save struggling nations.

This demonstrates an infantile attitude not just towards Merkel but towards the EU more broadly. EU power is seen as dangerous, but so is EU inaction; some see the EU as the wrecker of nations, others believe it isn’t doing enough to rescue nations. The way Merkel and the EU are now treated reminds me of what Homer Simpson once said about beer – that it is ‘the cause of and the solution to all of life’s problems’.


http://www.presseurop.eu/en/content/article/2141261-europhiles-and-eurosceptics-you-re-all-same

 

Right?????

 

Yes, my mistake, Alexa.

 

That's it Liebe, that's the mentality. It's like the little Johnny Englander syndrome at the marching parade. Everybody is out of step except Little Johnny.

 

Spot on.

 

You are just not thinking it through.

Just who on earth do you think would control this fantasy one world gov horror idea, that you have?

Please, answer me that, TMR. Who would control it? Yup, that's right, the self same viscous and murdering bastards, that you call out, each and every day, on here.

That's who.

Only, by devolving all, giving all to them, that's it, we would be goosed. They could do what they like, when they like, to whom they liked.

You put a dissapointing level of trust in such people, given your post history.

 

Patronising nonsense, and a dissapointing twist to your usual content.

 

On the contrary, I HAVE thought it through and have been thinking it through for the past 30 years. I posted pages of analysis underlying my thinking. Perhaps you missed it.

 

Who would run the World Gov?

 

I won't be pigeonholed Jack, sorry.

 

Not the Jews.