Viktor Orbán, Defender of Christianity

By your last comments you find it strange to care about people in another country. Pity you don’t care about other people in the world.

I’m conflating nothing, reread what I wrote and culture is not a choice. You are born into it. Assimilation does not mean taking on another culture. Jews, Blacks, Hispanics, South Asians enjoy their cultures and are “assimilated” Americans. It means obeying the laws and respecting and using the social customs of the country, not abandoning your heritage.

 

That's an absurdly wrong, and I believe intentional, description of what modernpaladin wrote. You need to do better if you expect to be considered credible.

 

Apparently we're suffering a miscommunication. Before we continue, we should try to use the same language... for starters, assimilation DOES mean taking on another culture, specifically, the dominant culture. Which, of course, is a choice.
Assimilation | Definition, History, & Facts | Britannica

assimilation, in anthropology and sociology, the process whereby individuals or groups of differing ethnic heritage are absorbed into the dominant culture of a society. The process of assimilating involves taking on the traits of the dominant culture to such a degree that the assimilating group becomes socially indistinguishable from other members of the society. As such, assimilation is the most extreme form of acculturation. Although assimilation may be compelled through force or undertaken voluntarily, it is rare for a minority group to replace its previous cultural practices completely; religion, food preferences, proxemics (e.g., the physical distance between people in a given social situation), and aesthetics are among the characteristics that tend to be most resistant to change. Assimilation does not denote “racial” or biological fusion, though such fusion may occur.

 

Thank you for including this definition in your post. It's the point some of us in this thread have been making and of which many in opposition seem to have no understanding whatrever. Do they have no respect for people finding it a priority to protect their nation and culture?

 

A lot of people think nations are bad.

 

So Orban demands the impossible "Assimilation is the most extreme form of acculturation."...."it is rare for a minority group to replace its previous cultural practices completely".
I don’t think “assimilation” is as black and white as your definition. Jews, Hispanics, Blacks and Native Americans have been in this country before it was a country. You would say they have not assimilated and I would say they are as assimilated as they are going to be.

No immigrant can fully assimilate, change cultures completely. You could not suddenly drop your American culture and take on a Japanese culture. The rule of thumb is by the third generation they will no longer be able to speak their grandparents first language and by the fifth generation, if there has been marriages outside their culture, their ethnicity will be in name only. The only thing Irish about Mary Margret O’Brien then is the name. That is fully assimilated.

 

Who thinks that?

 

I wouldn't say "Jews, Hispanics, Blacks and Native Americans" "have not assimilated"... where did I suggest anything like that? America is a melting pot. Our demands of assimilation are basically limited to- respect the civil rights of others. Part of our 'assimilation' is the acceptance of multiculturalism. I prefer to live in that sort of freedom. But like everything else, it has its benefits and its drawbacks. For example, we have worse crime than Hungary, pretty much across the board. Some of that crime is certainly a result of individuals having difficulty getting along with others of differing and incompatible cultures. If Hungary wants to maintain a greater degree of order in exchange for a lesser degree of cultural freedom, well thats part of the whole point of having nations- some people just don't like the chaos of freedom. They can go assimilate in Hungary.

 

“I wouldn't say "Jews, Hispanics, Blacks and Native Americans" "have not assimilated"... where did I suggest anything like that?” You said “assimilation DOES mean taking on another culture, specifically, the dominant culture.” and now it doesn’t?
BTW the only place I found a comparison of the two's crime level has them both at 41 per 1,000 crimes in 2002.

 

It's not just Hungary, other countries in Europe are also rethinking their immigration policies to welcome immigrants from cultures that are capable of integrating into the host country's culture, and restrict those from cultures who refuse to integrate. There simply is no reason for individual nations to commit cultural suicide with insane immigration policies just so leftists in the U.S and the EU can indulge in self-righteous smugness.

Exclusive: Denmark must favor high-skilled immigration from Asia and the Americas over Arabs who refuse to integrate, Danish MEP tells Remix News
https://rmx.news/remix-exclusive/ex...use-to-integrate-danish-mep-tells-remix-news/

Remix News sat down with Danish MEP Anders Vistisen at CPAC Hungary last week to take a deep dive into the immigration policy proposed by his conservative Danish People’s Party, as well as question him on the current political landscape in Denmark.

The 35-year-old lawmaker has been with the party for over a decade, having previously been the national chairman of the party’s youth section, and is currently its spokesperson for foreign affairs.

Vistisen is no novice to the Conservative Political Action Conference, having attended the event in Washington on five previous occasions.

"For a Western European country, Denmark certainly has the most strict regulation of illegal migration. It’s worth remembering, it’s quite easy to get in as a legal migrant. Our numbers are comparable for instance to a country like Canada when you’re looking into legal migration.

For EU countries it’s quite easy, but you also have what I think in the U.S. would be called green card or blue card models — that if you have relevant experience, education, and language, then you can come and work quite easily. So the numbers are quite similar to other Western countries. What we are focused on is the illegal part of migration, and also to direct the migration away from unqualified migration from the Middle East and North Africa to highly qualified migration from North America, Australia, and Asia. So that is the primary shift in my Danish migration policies over the years."

"The key problem with assimilation into Danish society is in relation to migrants originating from Africa and the Middle East, Vistisen said. He described a “cultural incapability” to integrate into society and spoke of migrant “ghettos” where arrivals “stay within the same ethnic group” and “disrespect Danish society, its norms and its rules.”






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USA's 'dominant culture' is civil rights and individual liberty- which extends to cultural tolerance (insofar as the culture doesn't violate civil rights). "Jews, Hispanics, Blacks and Native Americans" can and have assimilated as much as anyone else. What is it do you think they're failing to assimilate to?

Hungary has way less crime than we do:
Hungary vs United States Crime Stats Compared (nationmaster.com)

 

I don't see any rational analysis here.

It seems to totally ignore the contribution of UK and other western states in conquering Afg and Iraq.

It ignores the support for Israel that carries out its program of humanitarian atrocities against Muslims living in the state of Palestine.

It ignores the economic and political pressure by these same western states in imposing years of the regimes in Egypt that finally gave way to the the Arab Spring revolution.

It ignores the western states support propping up the political and economic regime of Saudi Arabia - the motivation behind OBLs attacks that aimed to make US involvement in Saudi Arabia too expensive.

It ignores the years long war in Syria.

Besides, the suggestion that the correct direction is for an autocrat to demand that people follow Catholicism is not a political direction that is going to be relevant today.

 

Nope, looks like Catholicism doesn't account for even half of Hungary's population.

https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/religious-beliefs-in-hungary.html
Religious Beliefs In Hungary
Rank Belief System Share of Hungarian Population
1 Roman Catholic Christianity 37.1%
2 Atheism or Agnosticism 18.2%
3 Reformed Church of Hungary and Other Protestant Christian Denominations 13.8%
4 Greek Catholic Christianity 1.8%
Other Religious Affilliations 1.9%
Unaffiliated 27.2%

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I'm not a christian but I support and defend it. What specifically is the problem with that? I may need to change my ways.

 

There's nothing wrong with it.

 

Christianity doesn’t need Human defender. Christ alone is enough. Either you trust God completely or not, there is no middle ground.

Anyone who claim to be Christian but think human need to defend Christianity , he/s completely misguided in their Christian faith.

 

I agree, with the stipulation that we defend people's right to the religious views of their choice.

 

Are you suggesting his rule was an example of religious plurality, as the US was chartered to be?

 

God

No, I was responding to your comment that Orban was trying to "demand people follow Catholicism."

 

Sure. All religions exist for a reason. I support and defend the concept of religion. I don't care a whit which one someone chooses.

 

But I don't have religious faith. I just approve of it. I don't use it myself.

 

Anybody calling themselves Christian is a plain hypocrite if they eat meat or fish.

 

“Civil rights and individual liberty- which extends to cultural tolerance“ is not the “dominant” society’s culture, those are attributes of many liberal societies throughout the world, unlike Hungary, and they have different cultures.
BTW the crime level is pretty middle of the road compared to others in the EU, so cultural purity seems to have little to do with it.

 

BTW, I didn't know the difference between crime level and crime rate. The crime rate is based on actual number of crimes (as I wrote Hungary and US had 41/1k). The crime level is based on citizen opinion. In the US they were asked "How serious you feel the level of crime is?".

 

What do you think the dominant culture in the USA is?