War pigs....

Discussion in 'Security & Defenses' started by Starcastle, Dec 31, 2020.

  1. Mushroom

    Mushroom Well-Known Member

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    Oh yes. He only signed the treaty to eliminate more nuclear weapons than anybody else in history, before or after he was in office.

    Took the Soviet Union from being one of our largest rivals, to a peaceful working relationship.

    Yes, so horrible of him to do that!
     
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  2. Mushroom

    Mushroom Well-Known Member

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    I supported that Amnesty, and it actually made sense.

    All applicants had to prove they had been in and worked in the US for at least 5 years, and gotten no federal or state aid other than student loans or grants (no immigrants on welfare). They had to have clean criminal records, both in the US and in their home country (no cartel members using it to get citizenship). And finally, they had to apply, pay a $500 fine on top of all the other fees (over $1,300 today), and then their INS file was flagged so if they violated a serious law between then and getting citizenship they would be deported.

    That is a far cry from the system that some are trying to push now.
     
  3. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Didn't say any of that - maybe you should starte with something other than made up false accusations - yeah .. thats would be good :)
     
  4. Mushroom

    Mushroom Well-Known Member

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    Uhh, whatever.

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    Last edited: Jul 9, 2021
  5. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Comes onto the stage name calling - putting words into folks mouths - and then complains and posts moronic pictures when pointed out.

    Quit the act you have going on there . real smooth operator ..

     
  6. Mushroom

    Mushroom Well-Known Member

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    Not at all. YOu said it was for what he did, and I pointed out things that he did. You just do not like it is all.

    Sorry, this is not where you dictate where I say what you want me to say, or fawningly agree with you and say you are right. If you do not like people pointing out things you do not like, then I suggest you keep your mouth shut.

    Have a nice day.
     
  7. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Must be why he accomplished what the experts said was impossible.
     
  8. Mushroom

    Mushroom Well-Known Member

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    Since when is that a qualification? If anything, Benazir Bhutto being elected Prime Minister of Pakistan twice is more deserving than that.
     
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  9. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You pointed out two good things he did.. implying that I said those were horrible - which I did not. Get and argument other than Strawman fallacy.

    Rotten Ronnie did all kinds of nasty things - well documented historical fact - did a 180 on all the peace agreements - discarding the MAD doctrine .. caving into the Military Industrial Complex in favor of a new doctrine - which has led to a new arms race.

    but that is just one area .. supporing terror like crazy he did .. Chemical weapons - no problem .. Set up a terrorist training school for the soldiers of the death squad dictators in Central America.. Oursourced our manufacturing sector - and racked up massive debt the result of which is our current ruinous fiscal state.
     
  10. DaveBN

    DaveBN Well-Known Member

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    Which was what?
     
  11. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Normalization agreements in the ME.
     
  12. Mushroom

    Mushroom Well-Known Member

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    Oh nonsense! That had been going on since the 1980's!

    That happened way back in 1986, when President Reagan promised to protect neutral shipping in the Persian Gulf in response to both Iraq and Iran attacking neutral shipping of many nations. And this culminated in 1987 when both Qatar and Kuwait reflagging their ships as US ships so they could get direct protection. And when that died down, we did nothing as they reflagged back to their home country, and we made no efforts to make them continue to do so.

    And finally, in 1990 when we formed the coalition to remove Iraq from Kuwait.

    There is a reason why long before even 2001, Qatar built a large air base in the desert (much larger than they would ever need) way back when President Clinton was in office, and invited the US to move into it. We often jokingly called Al-Udeid Air Base the "Base of Dreams". From the line from the old movie "Field of Dreams".

    "If you build it, they will come".

    No, about the only nations of note that we do not have good relations with is Syria and Iran. And it has been that way for decades, stretching back to when President Carter helped secure the Camp David Accords between Egypt and Israel. That was the start of that process, which was grounded firmly under President Reagan, and cemented under President Bush.
     
  13. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Yet Trump accomplished 4 of them when the experts said it was impossible.
     
  14. Mushroom

    Mushroom Well-Known Member

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    Obviously somebody here is delusional.

    Now I for one do not think he was a bad President, there are plenty others who were simply horrible. But by and large, he was largely an "empty suit". Pulled us out of a treaty that the other side had been openly violating for years, and ripped up a few Executive Orders that should have never been made in the first place (I object to any form of EO trying to take the place of a treaty no matter who makes it). But by and large, he did almost nothing that was his own, and continued most of the policies of the President before him.
     
  15. Farnsworth

    Farnsworth Well-Known Member

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    The Iraq war was entirely Saddam's doing. We knew if he had any big weapons he would use them, so when he said he had them there was no reason not to believe him, so the snivel about there 'not being any WMD's found' isn't a real argument against finishing him off. The fact is he violated the cease fires and other agreements almost daily, and why he was allowed to hide out in his one city for so long is what should be wondered at.

    Reagan didn't bring down the Soviet Union. That myth is one of the more ridiculous pieces of propaganda still alive after all these years.The fact is they went bankrupt in 1973, and were on western life support for the next two decades, importing food and refined petroleum products, and they went bankrupt largely over Viet Nam, mainly over LBJ's escalation policy there, and also over his decision to back Israel after the French bailed out of the ME. You could also give credit to Truman and every other President who continued to fund the Cold War' beginning with Truman, but it was mainly LBJ's policies that were the catalysts. But, it's not PC among right wingers to ever give credit to a Democrat for anything, so we still have the Saint Ronald cultists running around proselytizing his imaginary 'legacy' of heroism, never mind his idiotic handling of the Iranians, babbling nonsense about 'we don't deal with terrorists' while running away from the barracks bombing in Lebanon and selling guns to the Iranians to help out some South American dope dealers, among other two-faced and counterproductive agendas. He is the most responsible for the contempt terrorists hold for the U.S. as a weak kneed soft target.

    Made a lot of good speeches and imported a lot of Mexican scabs to bust some unions, which of course did nothing to lower the prices of meat at the packing plants as anybody can see for themselves; prices began spiking as soon as the strike was busted, and the average wages fell over $4 an hour. Obviously there was no relation to union wages and what companies charge since they were allowed to form an oligarchy; same with housing and illegal alien labor; no cost savings are ever passed on to consumers, and certainly never in booms, but right wing mythology keeps trying to sell the lie anyway, knowing few people are taught how to do basic arithmetic any more.
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2021
  16. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Well there are facts, then there is the media. It’s something you could find easily.
     
  17. Mushroom

    Mushroom Well-Known Member

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    "facts"

    Uh-huh. Then kindly tell us exactly what he did, that was so completely unlike what had been done before him in that region.

    No, you are the one that stated those were "Facts", to tell us these "facts". When, where, and exactly what was done that was unique in the history of relations with the nations in the region.

    You made the claim, with absolutely no reference. Now I am calling that claim. And as I love to say, "If there are no references, it never happened". SO basically this is where you put up, or shut up.
     
  18. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You can ignore history all you want. It’s a free country and I am not your nanny.
     
  19. Mushroom

    Mushroom Well-Known Member

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    I am "ignoring history"? How is that, I am actually telling you that I want to know the history, and for you to tell me exactly what it is that was done.

    I am not ignoring it, I am asking to be informed. So please, inform me! Give me this secret history that has been denied to me!

    But in all seriousness, you can no9t hope to be taken seriously when somebody simply asks for proof of your claims, and you provide nothing then act like a child.
     
  20. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    That you are simply clueless about the normalization agreements under Trump isn’t my problem. Bet you are also unaware of the numerous nominations for the Nobel Peace prize. So easy for you to look up but you want somebody to hold your hand like a little kid.
     
  21. Mushroom

    Mushroom Well-Known Member

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    And in 1939 Adolph Hitler was nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize.

    https://www.warhistoryonline.com/wo...itler-nominated-nobel-peace-prize-1939-m.html

    Oh, and in 1973, the Peace Prize actually went to Lê Đức Thọ was awarded the prize, but declined it. Good thing I guess, as just over a year later he invaded and destroyed South Vietnam.

    https://www.nobelprize.org/prizes/peace/1973/tho/facts/

    Do you see the above? That is known as a "reference". Can you say "reference"? I knew you couldn't.

    *chuckles and walks away*
     
  22. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Not surprised you ignore the obvious and resort to a logical fallacy.
     
  23. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Under Biden we now find out government is working with corporations to silence politically inconvenient SMS messages. Eerily reminiscent of 1930s Germany.
     
  24. Dayton3

    Dayton3 Banned

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    For example?
     
  25. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Gave you many examples in previous threads ... thought you were a Historian - you are supposed to be teaching me - not the reverse.
     

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