This is a question that has been bothering me for a couple of decades, but I've never gotten a straight answer, and I've never even found ANY Christian source that covers the question. Throughout Christianity's history, I've never seen it even addressed, so I wanted to see if there were those on the forum who had some thoughts on the subject. Some of Jesus's last words were "Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do," presumably talking about those killing him. So . . . were those people forgiven for their sins, as Jesus requested? If so, then it appears that God can forgive people without requiring a confession of sins. You don't need to seek forgiveness in order to be forgiven. It also appears to indicate that Jesus sees a lack of knowledge as a justification for (or at least a sufficient reason for) forgiveness. Christianity today generally rejects this philosophy, so what gives?
I guess he was referring to the Roman soldiers who were carrying out their lawful duty. The sins in their lives is another matter.
John 20:23 Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.” We have the power to forgive sins, apparently. Sometimes forgiving sins has more to do with the forgiver, rather than the forgiven. Holding a grudge only hurts you. Forgiving someone for a wrong can set you free from the bondage of ill feelings.
That's a good question and I'll take a not-in-any-way authorative shot at it. In the first place, Jesus is the second "person" of the Trinity; both fully man and fully God. His mission was to bring the Good News of the Gospel to all of humanity. So, yes, those people's sins were forgiven. Technically he had no need to cry out to God the Father but his humility was part of his essence and he was reinforcing and demonstrating the Gospel he'd been proclaiming for 3 years that it is truly part of our duty as Christians to strive for mercy for those who persecute us. But that means that they were forgiven at that moment for those sins. Being inherently sinful (only 2 people in history were born without the stain of original sin- Jesus and his mother Mary) it was guaranteed that they would continue to sin for the rest of their lives. A confession of sins is not for the benefit of God, but rather for our benefit to keep us aware of our shortcomings and keep us moving forward in the pursuit of holiness. God knows all about us. He doesn't need our independent verification. Along similar lines, God wants to be reconciled to us. And by "us" that means all of us. Christian, Jew, Muslim, Buddist, aetheist, agnostic, Wiccan- all of us. Jesus died for all of us. The proof text of this idea is the story of Jonah and the whale. God called Jonah to go to Ninevah and ultimately had to use the whale to force him to go, but the message was not, "look, y'all gotta be Jewishto be saved." No, it was repent of your sins before things get really ugly because of them. It didn't require knowledge of any religion to be forgiven. Just try and turn from your wicked ways that are hurting you and others. Rather than a checklist of things you need to do to be saved, I find comfort in my Catholic faith which says that when you die you'll go- naked, weak, broken, and alone- to meet God in all His unimaginable glory and you will have to answer for yourself. The people that crucified Jesus did and you'll have to too. We can't say what actually happened in the end to any of those folks who went right on sinning after the crucifixion, but you shouldn't worry about them. The question is, what will you do? Hope that makes some sense and, again, thanks for causing me to think.
Interesting question. Since it is specifically a Christian question, and I have no confidence in the accuracy of that theology, it would feel odd for me to offer an answer. Instead, since it doesn't appear that anyone has yet addressed your query, head on, I will rephrase your question, to hopefully help clarify it, for others. The popular Christian idea, is that in order to be forgiven by God, we must, with contrition in our hearts, ask God for His forgiveness. Yet, in the instance of the crucifixion, Jesus appealed for it to be freely given. So, was that a special case, or might it be expected that God judges a person's goodness, and forgives transgressions without needing to be specifically asked? I will speculate that any faith that states that one need be baptized in order to get into heaven, is likely to have other rules as well, so it would seem doubtful, in that dogma, it would be good enough to be just a basically good person. Even aside from original sin, which some Christians still talk about (despite my thinking, the crucifixion of Christ was supposed to have cleaned that slate), I think it is the Christian philosophy that none of us is good enough to get into heaven, without God's forgiveness. If one were to assume God was not a hypocrite, and the Lord's prayer given us by Jesus, instructs us to forgive others' trespasses against ourselves, so that God will likewise forgive us, one might think that was all that was required; that is, that we would all be judged, based on the way we had judged, and treated others. This same standard is implied in the parable about the separating of the goats and the sheep. In that parable, whatsoever one does for others, in need, will be credited to them, as an act of kindness to God, earning them an eternal reward; while those who are condemned, are deemed to be damned, only due to the way they had ignored God, as He'd manifested Himself, through those in need. This really seems like a whole different system, than the one in which we only need ask, to be forgiven. IOW, after Jesus goes through His spiel, "I was hungry, and you gave me no food to eat...I was in prison, and you did not visit me," if one of the goats, instead of just asking, "Lord, when did I see you..." in those conditions, had said, "please forgive me," would he then have been put with the sheep? I think the main problem with your question is expecting the religion to have one, definitive answer on that. And I don't find that to be a weakness, since in truth, no one can know what lies in store for us, after this life so, in a way, Christianity's mixed message obscurity there, could almost be seen as one of its more honest elements. As a personal note, while I don't think that we can know such things, as I'd said, I am inclined to believe less in specific criterion, for salvation. I am impressed with the way, for example, because God supposedly forgave King David for his treachery with loyal officer Absalom, and his covetous adultery with that man's wife, Bathsheba, he caused David's story to be repeated in the Bible a second time, with all that iniquity excised from the narrative. Apparently, from that example, God has His favorites. However, there are other stories, as of Job, for instance, that show God does not choose those favorites, based strictly on who is the most devout. (I'm not sure if there has been any doubt cast on the authorship, but) I see an interesting parallel in the book of Ecclesiastes, reputedly written by King Solomon. In it, he points out this tendency of life to be unfair, by often seeming to be cruel to those who appear the truest servants of God, while rewarding dissolute reprobates. Life seems to love some, and not others, and it does not appear to be related to how "good" of a person, one is, at least not, according to the wisest man in the world. I take from all this, that what appeals to God, is not what the religion teaches. Maybe it would be impossible, anyway, to "teach" one to be favored by God. Much easier, to tell someone to ask for forgiveness. If a person is genuinely of the giving spirit, cited in the story of the judgement of the sheep, though, it seems reasonable to believe that such a person would naturally regret his bad actions, or "sins," and emulate the behavior Jesus recommended to the adulteress, of whom He had said "let he without sin, cast the first stone." At the end of that event, Jesus tells the woman that He, like the rest of the crowd which had quietly drifted away, did not condemn the woman for her sin. He only charged her to try to avoid repeating that sin, in the future. It is why I disagree with what we would always say, before communion, when I was a Catholic: "Lord, I am not worthy to receive you; but only say the word, and I shall be healed." It seems more likely, to me, that whatever one believes to be God, would smile down moreso upon those who at least try, to be more worthy.
I hereby exonerate you from all feelings of guilt for being easily and so frequently duped. * "I did not have sexual relations with that woman". Billy 'Cars & Garages' Clinton. * "No one ever suggested Saddam had weapons of Mass Destruction!" George 'Bush Baby' Junior. * "I had no prior knowledge of the Watergate break-in". Richard Nixon. * "The Vietnamese attacked our navy in the Gulf of Tonkin". Lyndon Johnson. * "The Russians did it!" The White House. * "The Russians did it!" Hillary Clinton. * "The Russians did it!" The FBI. * "The Russians did it!"! The CIA. * "The Russians did it!"! Babaky Obombi. * "The Russians did it!" Creepy Joe Biden. * "Father, forgive them for they know not what they do." The bible hoaxsters.
if Jesus is God, and Jesus wants that, then does not that also mean God wants it? remember, God could not forgive man, unless man killed Jesus, that is why Jesus died after all
Is there a concept of "God" that precludes "God" from being "God" and doing whatever the creator of all and everything cares to do? If so, that concept is not of "God", but of something else.
Forgive them for killing Him, but not for the sin of unbelief. His death was pre-planned, so the Romans were only carrying out something which was meant to be. "I and the Father are one.”- John 10:30 They almost stoned Him for saying it: "“For blasphemy, because you, being a man, make yourself God” - John 10:33
Why don't you show me a quote where Jesus said he was God? Of all the things he said that would be very important, don't you think?
No where did he claim, in the context of that verse (33) to be God. The phrase "thou, being a man, makest thyself God" actually is about Jesus' miracles (good works) that makes him to be like a god. The context makes this clear. 34Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? 35If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken; 36Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God? Jesus claimed to be "the Son of God", not God.
Look again. That’s a quote by John, not Jesus. Yes, of course, if claiming false gods was punishble by death then it seems reasonable that John would be put to death.
No, it is not. Maybe you will accept ..... Creepy Joe Biden said, "I am a pedophile" - written by Thingamabob 25-June-2023. That's a quote from Biden himself!
I really don't understand your thinking. You attribute a quote of Biden that you wrote. Are you for real?
I really don't understand your thinking. You attribute a quote of Jesus that John wrote. Are you for real?
My reply makes more sense than yours. The fact that you do not understand it just makes your "Enjoy your day" definitely the most sensible thing to do.
They are words of Jesus recorded by John. John was not put to death. John the Baptist was beheaded, but the author of Book of John was not.
The Gospels are the official record of Jesus Christs words and deeds. It's just like a stenographers role in a courtroom. Granted that records can become corrupted and eroded by people over time. But one works with what one has. The Bible is what we have.
..... and ..... It is awfully nice that you two believe those quotes but I've read other quotes that refute your quotes and my quotes are much more credible than your quotes.
