What Good Exists In The Right-Wing?

So you're a Nihilist, I take it?

 

LOL. Now you should define me what is left.

But the URSS was what we define as authoritarian socialism, and it is in the left.

I am leftist, too, but libertarian.

 

I think it shows muddled thinking on your part, not bias on mine and here's why:

I don't talk of the Right and the Left. I talk of the conservativism and liberalism in this instance. I am not "Left". Liberalism is not the Left just because American conservatives want to have the debate in that way. It is indeed more balanced and "middle of the road", as you say. You accuse me of bias because I am not a leftist promoting extremism. Why should I be?

I juxtapose my ideology - a balanced and principled liberalism - against that of conservatives. You object. Is this not because you find it hard to disagree with me and you want me to put up extremist arguments that you will find easy to demolish?

Why should I do that? You are caught in the trap that US conservativies are caught in on here - the trap of tribalism. Because you and other conservatives - who when it comes down to it may very well be moderates whose views are very similar to my own - see politics as tribal, you are caught in the trap of defending extremist conservatives right now and therefore cry foul that I don't do the same with leftists. I will not salve your conscience here. Moderate conservatives giving fascsists and racists a free pass does not mean that I have to support statism, welfare socialism, or totalitarianism so you can smear me as an extremist. I don't believe in that crap. And I frequently argue against it.

If you are really a moderate, where are your debates with the scores of nutjobs on the Right that post on here? You give them a free pass as far as I can see because you are members of the same club, as you see it. Well I'm a member of the liberal club. Socialists are not admitted. Conservatives determined to tell me that they should be, so that they can attack me easier, doesn't change this.

The truth is that I am not a tribalist. My views are implacably opposed to socialism and to extreme conservativism. If moderate conservatives were more interested in ideas, rather than tribal fighting, then extremism would be destroyed in the USA, instead of flourishing as it does.

Moderate conservatives may go along with extremism because it is in the 'conservative" camp. Why should proper capitalism supporting liberals? (Those who oppose capitalism are not liberals, they are socialists - even in America). This is not bias. It is having a clear set of beliefs and defending them against allcomers, from right and left. Would that you - and other possible moderates on here who consistently fail to denounce rightist extremism - do the same.

 

We could be attacked by a very particular type of hostile, unintelligent alien, pretty much exactly like the ones in all the Hollywood movies. Then right-wingers would suddenly prove to be right about many things, and would be very useful.

 

No, we know what Liberalism wants.

They want us to "get in line" behind an authoritarin leader stamped after FDR or Hugo Chavez(whose policies are essentially identical) and not to question the dictates of the technocrats in Washington no matter how freedom crushing they may be.

You want the same social conditions now, that reigned during WWII when everyone was little more than a socialist drone, putting everything into the war effort, only this time without the war.

Liberalism wants all of society to voluntarily live a Goverment issued standard of living so that the poor in America don't feel so bad about being poor, but since modern Americans refuse to do so, it will require an authoritarian government to force them to adopt the Government Issue Lifestyle.

 

And the drivel goes on and on... it's not even witty. Just boring predictable tedious bollocks.

And in such poor English to boot!

 

Calling my post drivel, and pointing out the flaws in my careless typing does not prove me wrong.

All one has to do is read krugman, dowd, salon and slate, etc. These pundits and publications are the voice of the liberal elite in America and all of them cry for more authoritarian Government.

I'm not one of the ignorant right who doesn't read your side's views. I read liberal publications every day. It's like eating cheerios, it could be good for you, but it doesn't taste very good.

 

Libertarianism does not line up with socialistic views on fiscal policies.

You can't be for social freedom, but against fiscal freedom and consider yourself a libertarian.

 

But have you ever written anything interesting? You just write a lot of drivel about how liberals are communists. It's pathetic. Why do you bother? Do you think it's clever? Do you think it impresses anyone? You just repeat this facile trash over and over. Have you actually got anything interesting to say?

I would love to read clever stuff written by "your side". (And I do, but alas, not on this forum). Equating Chavez with FDR is not clever. It is just juvenile trash. It's pitiful. Like arguing that's the earth is flat. Why would I bother to respond? That would be taking a risable piece of nonsense and giving it far more respect than it deserves.

And it wasn't careless typing that I criticized: it was language that personified an ideology - juvenile and peurile. Liberalism doesn't want anything. Only sentient beings can want. No typo there in your post - just shockingly poor English.

 

Wow.. harsh.. you seem aware enough, judging from your post... whats with the wack job as your avatar?

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sophie_Scholl

Read...follow the links...and then sit quietly for a while and think...

The real damage is done by those millions who want to 'survive.' The honest men who just want to be left in peace. Those who don’t want their little lives disturbed by anything bigger than themselves. Those with no sides and no causes. Those who won’t take measure of their own strength, for fear of antagonizing their own weakness. Those who don’t like to make waves—or enemies. Those for whom freedom, honour, truth, and principles are only literature. Those who live small, mate small, die small. It’s the reductionist approach to life: if you keep it small, you’ll keep it under control. If you don’t make any noise, the bogeyman won’t find you. But it’s all an illusion, because they die too, those people who roll up their spirits into tiny little balls so as to be safe. Safe?! From what? Life is always on the edge of death; narrow streets lead to the same place as wide avenues, and a little candle burns itself out just like a flaming torch does. I choose my own way to burn. Sophie Scholl

 

And this is a total cop out. If it were really not worth your time, you wouldn't keep responding to it. And yet here you are responding again without actually refuting any of the points. You are now just making condescending remarks to feel like you're getting the last word without actually saying anything.

 

At least they made the trains run on time...... They didn't? It's a myth? Oh dear.

 

No I'm not.

 

Yes, my "shockingly poor english" is what is preventing you from answering the charges made in the OP. That liberalism is a useless ideology without an authoritarian Government to successfully administer it.

I have no doubt that if America abandoned it's values of near-absolute economic and political freedom that it could, in theory at least, successfully administer a Social Democracy.

I however, am not going to give one inch to the authoritarians than they already have. I will not trade my economic freedom for someone else's economic security.

 

Do you want to know what mindless drivel is and boring tedious bollocks; this thread and its idiot premise.

But alas, for someone as uninformed as you and your fellow Libtwits appear to be, drivel like this is par for the course.

One of these days, you might actually surprise me and use a fact in your tedious and boring posts. Even the worst grammar contains more intelligence than stupidity of this threads premise.

 

you are very correct, Dayton3.

The Right has the correct answers.

Here is the very foolish direction, the Left wants to take us!



"My name is Representative Maxine Waters and I am a flaming liberal. And as a flaming liberal and a Democratic Socialist I must tell you the money in your savings and checking accounts does not actually belong to you. Instead, your money, the money you have worked so hard for, collectively, belongs to the federal government! This is why I support increasing our income tax rate to 70 percent like it was in the good old days before the Republicans were in charge of tax policy!” Here is another very liberal Democrat a lot of people would like to slap some common sense into!

 

Ya because EVERYONE KNOWS just how level headed you Republicans can be...

http://www.politicalforum.com/latest-world-news/203949-true-face-left-chavez-supports-gaddafi-3.html

I not sure what Republicans have done that turned out good. I'm sure there is something, but the economy is NONE OF THEM!!!

 

I have a hard time finding any good in the right wing these days.
(On a side note, I'm starting to miss George W. Bush as a spokesman for the right-- he actually wasn't all that bad, but this can only be recognized in hindsight).

I suppose I just have to go with the cheesy answer: a principled opposition, an antagonist.
Every movement needs one.

Sadly, I don't think the modern right is the kind of antagonist that can bring out any good in the left... which sort of kills my cheesy point!
They are so extreme that the left only reflexively acts on the defensive rather than developing new ideas.
They have their own "facts" so arguing with them doesn't lead to compromise or even to any intellectual breakthroughs.

So sadly... my answer is nothing.
There is nothing good about the right today.
Except maybe that their day in the sun cannot last.

 

Polls have provided plenty of overwhelming evidence that no matter how popular Obama is, or how much America may dislike the GOP. They ARE shifting to the right economically. That isn't going to change as long as Obama and the Dems continue to scapegoat an anonymous group of people know as the "tea party".

Where is this evil leader of the Right that the Left can point to and not come across sounding like conspiracy theory loon? There isn't one.

Indepedents are simply not buying the meme that the Right is controlled by the Koch brothers and a small group of mythical evil men called "the rich".. they just arn't buying it Java.

Good to see you again, you are one of the few liberal posters with honest convictions and not acting out of hate for those who disagree with you. Stick around, maybe you can show an example to the recent crop of loonies and sock puppets that have dropped in to tell Cons that we are an evil conspiracy.

 

Where do you see proof that people are shifting economically to the right?
Show me these polls.
Most polls show no real ideological change, just the usual muddled non-ideological depends-on-how-you-ask crap.

 

Man, you know what? When i was growing up, it was perfectly politically correct to toss admitted commies and socialists out in to the street without even a hearing and demand that they **** with their crazy memes.

What you call "unstable" just 20 years ago was mainstream thinking for most Americans. So I don't understand where you get off calling the Right "unstable" for continuing to hold political beliefs that were considered completely and totally valid just a couple short decades ago!

America hasn't had a giant cultural revolution in a couple decades, communists and socialists are still not welcome in America and I'm not expressing any opinions that weren't expressed by mainstream Americans just a few short years ago.

 

Psst...News Flash Sonny...

MCCARTHY'S DEAD!!!

NOBODY ever tossed anyone out in the street without getting arrested for assault. Not in either of our lifetimes. And I don't call you extremists "unstable", I OPENLY CALL Y'ALL FRIGGIN' INSANE!!! Yet I would not deny any of you the right to free speech...hell the way you freaks are going, I encourage it...

So continue with your litanies of spite and hate...we're listening...and learning...

have a warm and fuzzy day...

 

Conservatives viciously attacked Reagan when he negotiated an arms treaty with Gorbachev and wildly overestimated the Soviet threat. If Reagan had listened to those fools Gorbachev would have been replaced by a hard-liner who would have continued the cold war. Since Gorbachev dissolved the Soviet Union the US went on a Neo-Liberal orgy of corporate welfare schemes like NAFTA, deregulation and tax cutting that have devastated our economy.

What 20 year period are you referring to? The greatest period of prosperity in US history was the liberal golden age of 1945-73 with high taxes on the rich and strong labor unions, things that conservative hate. When Bush I and Clinton raised taxes in the early nineties conservatives screamed that it would wreck the economy. Instead the economy boomed in the 90s. Clinton handed Bush a 5% unemployment rate and a budget surplus that Bush's conservative policies magically transformed into a 7.9% unemployment rate and a trillion dollar deficit. The economy did boom in the eighties under Reagan until the 87 market crash. Although Reagan was conservative he was also pragmatic and allowed taxes to increase.

 

The right wing didn't win the Cold War and Reagan didn't make his famous speech until he was certain the Soviet Union was on the verge of falling. The CIA had been predicting the fall since the late 1960s.

I'm not even sure the Cold War is over.