What is a PROPER wage? Based on your output being worth 100$ per hour.

Sounds like there is a lot to the story, and telling folks they are worth just what they get, or that they have a fair negotiation, is foolish.

And this is not even adding in the FED, which raises interest rates, to THROW folks out of jobs, to stem WAGE PRESSURE, so the rich don't have their taxes raised.

 

A proper wage is equal to half the profit that one's labor produces.

 

Labor is a commodity, bought and sold like any other, that responds to supply and demand. In a BUYERS market, the BUYER determines the price. In a SELLERS market, the SELLER determines the price.

When there are 1000 qualified applicants for a given position, then the BUYER (employer) gets to say: "X is what I will pay, take it or leave it." Then he gets to determine who, amongst the people willing to take the job, is best qualified.

If the roles were reversed, and there were 1000 open positions at 10 competing companies for each applicant, then the SELLER (employee) gets to say: "This is what I am willing to do the job for, take it or leave it." Then the competing companies will have to start there and compete for his labor. The employee then gets to choose who to go work for. Often when this happens, companies will offer signing bonuses, stock incentives, extended paid leave, and other perks to entice the employee to choose them over their competition.

For this reason, government being supportive to business is a far better solution than raising their taxes and strangling them with regulations. If we could ever get into a situation where businesses are coming from all over the world to set up factories in the US, rather than shutting them down and moving them away as has been the case for the last two decades, then we can get workers closer to the sellers market for their labor. And, we can do that without sacrificing the environment, lowering working condition standards, or paying third world wages.

 

What if someone else is willing to do it for 1/3?

 

You talkin crazy. First the fed MANAGES supply and demand , to GUARANTEE that wage earners DONT ahave a GOOD negotiation. If they do, interest is raised, so they do NOT. NExt, Businesses DONT give back ANY help they are given, in raised wages. EVER, as far as I can see.

 

That to be sure was part of it, along with the fact that they felt they weren't getting a fair shake from the Democratic controlled NLRB. But lets not forget that even in there hay days only about 30% of private sector jobs were unionized, primarily automobile manufacturing, mining and steel. That's now at about 10%. Union jobs have moved almost entirely to the public sector and the unholy alliance between Democratic politicians and public sector unions has placed in jeopardy a lot of major American cities from a financial perspective. Even now the state of Ca.'s pension plans are in danger of total collapse in the not to distant future. And they aren't alone.

 

Most of your solutions are simply more of the same that created the problems in the first place. In order to restore fairness to income disparity, it is necessary to identify the root problem that has caused it to begin with.

The reason capitalism is no longer working for the majority of Americans can be identified by going back and listening to what our founding fathers said when they originally set this system up.

They warned the people of two dangers to the country in which, if allowed to happen, would rob the country of its prosperity.
The first was the creation of a Central Bank, by which the nation would lose its financial autonomy and be drowned in debt.
The second was to allow the formation of corporations which would in time grow to own and control the government.

If the Federal Reserve was eliminated, and corporate structure was outlawed, the free market would explode and prosperity would be shared by everyone.

Unfortunately, this can never happen without a well educated society which we do not have, and will never have so long as government controls education.

 

If liberals really care about higher wages for American workers then join conservatives in stopping illegal migration and deport the illegals who are already here

Plus end the trade imbalance with china

 

Stupidity can be defined the inability to even understand what is in ones own best interest.
We have unfortunately devolved into a nation of idiots.

 

The question is not what someone is willing to work for. A starving person will do almost anything - including kill someone - or enter into indentured servitude such as in the Feudal System - for food.

The question is "what is proper" ? This of course begs the question "What is proper" - which really needs to be defined prior to answering the question "properly".

I defined "proper" as to mean fair.

When I was in commission sales (chemicals) for example this is how it worked. I was on straight commission. The more accounts I got the more money I made. Say the price of a drum of chemical was $1000. Assume the cost of production, administration, the container (drum) and shipping was $500. I would make $250 and the company would make $250. (This worked out to 25% commission on the total).

To me this is fair. The owner of the company makes just as much as I do off the sale - the difference being that the owner has many sales people so he is making a whole lot more than the individual salesperson.

 

Since it’s a voluntary agreement between two parties, my statement remains correct.

 

So 'poor' people HAVE to eat junk food? Wow ... who knew.

 

Sounds like you don't understand the laws of supply and demand. A firm just needs to face an upward sloping labour supply curve (which is automatically delivered by asymmetric information and associated job search frictions) and underpayment is predicted.

As I said, right wingers just don't know economics!

 

I quit reading when you brought up the 50's. Unless you are advocating for another world war, the economic model from the 50's-70's is never happening again.

 

If there is anyone unsatisfied with their wage, they always have the option to take their skill to the market and go into business for themselves. Of course, that takes more effort than complaining on a forum...
In fact, if some of the complainers spent their time improving their skills, instead of complaining online, they would probably not need to complain about their worth to begin with.
Bottom line is that when you disagree with the market about what your worth is, my experience has been the market is usually right.

 

Yeah, I've never understood that either. I'm all for the securing of minimum wages and conditions (thanks Unions, you did a good job there), but beyond that it's on the individual.

 

Is that the same reason that telephone operators have been replaced by automation?

 

I’m not to familiar about the situation with phone operators, but I’m already seeing the kiosk things in fast food joints. It’s only a matter of time.

 

Bingo

The problem with this is, when it happens it is going to reach a point where I actually agree that UBI is needed.

Gonna be an interesting conversation though, people on UBI are basically going to be living for free and will eventually lose almost every recruitable skill they have, if they ever build any....

There will be the working people who can afford to go live, and the AOC dreamed up "People who don't want to work", who won't be able to take the advantages of those who are working.

It's really sad to push for this, its going to create a pretty divisive society. Which is also why a lot of Conservatives think this is intended, why else would you want to create a population of so many people who don't get to enjoy modern society to the fullest?

 

We’re gonna have to come up with something, because truck drivers and customer service people are gonna out of work.
Knowing politicians they’ll kick the can down the road till it’s too late

 

Do you have a real life example?

The trouble with lefties is that they operate in fantasyland so no real conversation can be had.

 

However much the person is willing to work for and the employer is willing to pay.

 

Liberals will flood America with poor people from all over the globe

And then complain about poverty in America

 

That to be sure was part of it, along with the fact that they felt they weren't getting a fair shake from the Democratic controlled NLRB. But lets not forget that even in there hay days only about 30% of private sector jobs were unionized, primarily automobile manufacturing, mining and steel. That's now at about 10%. Union jobs have moved almost entirely to the public sector and the unholy alliance between Democratic politicians and public sector unions has placed in jeopardy a lot of major American cities from a financial perspective. Even now the state of Ca.'s pension plans are in danger of total collapse in the not to distant future. And they aren't alone.

 

Excuses excuses. You only get an upward sloping labor supply curve when government steps all over the job market creates minimum wage scales there are out of whack with what those skills are worth in the market, raises taxes to the point that startups and business expansion are crippled. In other words high taxes beget slack job markets, and business strategies that are more inclined toward wealth preservation than wealth expansion are the mechanism.