What is 'objective reality'?

IC, the good news is that there is NO real proof of anything. That includes, well if anyone wants to challenge that statement I will educate them. There is only evidence and most of it is corrupt in some fashion. That said there is as much and more good evidence for the existence of God than not. When the atheists learn to think critically they will have no other choice but to agree.

reva

 

I certainly cannot argue that with you. Hope the Lord blessed you on this, His day.

 

TY you just provided it.

you don't need to. It is impossible for you to show proof.

 

Has any other god ever sent a messenger? Or is it this one particular that sends different messengers and different messages to the non christian world?

 

What is his day? As according to the original chosen people, this isn't his day. Yes it is the day most christians chose to make his day, but then the christians changed from God's original, 'his day'.

 

I don't have any experience with other 'gods' (unless you refer to people as lesser gods). As for differing messages.... I would probably say it is moreover a matter of differing interpretations of the message that was sent.

 

Objective reality is the committed philosophical enemy of the True Believer. It's not the practical enemy - even the most god-addled religious dingbat looks both ways before crossing the street. But the practical world is based on evidence, and the religious world is based on axioms. And axioms have no need of the hypothesis that any objective reality exists.

The true dingbat crosses easily between observation and axiomatic presumption, apparently unable to tell the difference.

 

And the dingbat non-theists accept assumptions without questioning whether or not it is true. IE... the scientific method... based on assumptions.

 

But clearly, you only reject reality as "just an assumption" when it refutes specific delusions you can't live without. The rest of the time, it's perfectly acceptable or you wouldn't last a day. How very convenient.

 

Another assumption on your part. Clearly I have stated repeatedly that I deal with the science involved in electronics on a daily basis... therefore, your claim is defective. I reject the claims of science with regard to reality when the non-theist dingbats make claims that they cannot support with PROOF. PROOF being evidence or argument that compels the mind to accept an assertion as true.

 

Yes my friend I am blessed, but today is Monday, I felt so bad yesterday I just posted that and went to bed. Today is a new day that the lord has given us, and one that I feel we (most of us) don't really deserve. That said, I am wondering has anyone resolved the main question of your OT ? This is kind of on topic. My mind seems to be failing me but do you remember what part of scripture references Gods secrets? I don't feel like plowing through the internet gauntlet to find it.

God bless~

reva

 

In both Old and New Testament there is not a shadow of variation in the doctrine of the Sabbath. The seventh day, Saturday, is the only day ever designated by the term Sabbath in the entire Bible.

 

As IC points out I only have personal experience with the creator God that is described in writings of the 'Hebrew' bible. However to earn degrees I had to study Greek mythology etc and yes there are many messengers sent by many Gods of myth. You bring up a good point and one that I had not really thought about. I have noticed as some other scholars that there are certain eras in time where certain events are described in biblical stories and are recorded in scripture. I am doing ongoing research about the eras or more likely the time line of J.Christian miracles. I feel we have been in an era devoid, or a very low number of miracles. As the end times approach next week or next century miracles will increase dramatically. We will have a new messenger sent not by God but by the father or all lies or better known as Satan. The messenger will be the Antichrist, and the false prophet, who will lead most of the world against Israel. Stay tuned most of the prophesy has been fulfilled to set the world stage for this trickster, who will fool the world into thinking he is a man of peace and maybe even the second coming!

reva

 

Even science tells us reality what we think is real is simply an trick fostered upon us by our senses and the nature of time etc. For example we do not live in the present moment! You what you perceive as 'now' the present moment is really the past! If the universe were to change you would not know it for a measure of time. The universe really leaves you behind continually, and you/we can never experience the universe as it really is. So that is one of many ways you/we do not experience reality as it really is, with the approval stamp of your reality anchor, ie science.

reva

 

Mate, for someone that believes in a man floating in the sky because a book that you chose over a host of other religious books, that was written 2000 years told you; you sure have a hard-on for "PROOF". Whereas the only proof anybody truly has of existence in general, is the existence of mind - first understand that then work forward. The we move onto philosophy; there is no first hand empirical evidence- you have heard, through multiple sources, information that has changed hands many, many times before it has reached you. Whereas, what I have seen first-hand, and therefore is Primary Empirical evidence; and therefore prove, at least to myself - is the absence of divinity in this world and beyond. You cannot "prove" anything, just as I can't absolutely eliminate the fact that your beliefs are be true - I can only have a better argument than yours.

 

I'm sorry, but I cannot interpret scripture spiritually. Because I don't believe in spirituality! That's the whole point of the argument...

 

Wow, you religious types have real problems with reality. Clearly, when reality refutes your delusions, reality is wrong. Good on you!

 

As far as I can determine, in the KJV there are no direct references to "God''s secrets". There are a couple of passages that imply that there are such secrets, but those dependent upon the interpretation of the context of the particular scripture. There are also a few which mention the 'mysteries' of God and of the Kingdom of Heaven. The most obvious that speaks about such things is the passage in 1Co 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Then there are 3 passages in 1 Corinthians 14 that speak of the interpreting of things revealed by the Holy Spirit through the speaking in tongues and 1 in 1 Corinthians 12. Outside of those passages, I believe it would make an interesting discussion, barring any of the usual input by skeptics.

 

Ahhh... you have found the key. The key to understanding that not all people think alike nor do they share the same beliefs. In your belief system (and you do have one) the PROOF you have accepted is based on criteria that you have ceded as most beneficial to you as an individual. You have found a compelling force that has compelled your mind to accept something or more than one something as 'true'. Though you having found such a compelling force does not mandate that all others will accept that compelling force as effective in their own personal life. Congratulations.

 

And there we have found the conclusion to any religious debate, roughly ground down to the base elements of "You hold your own beliefs, and I shall hold mine", I'm not expecting to convert anybody, just as nobody will try to convert me, or if they do, will find their efforts to be in vain. I think it best to end the debate for now, I may return in future, but I feel all has been said, as for the present.

 

Asa person who has a great dealof knowledge about Quantum Mechanics, Cosmology, Astronomy and Mathematics I can tell tell you this........

Every time a Theist comes up to be with those questions such as.....Well....it has to have a Beginning and an End......well.....Mathematically....and as far as Quantum Mechanics and Multiversal Theory.....NO...NO IT DOES NOT!

Humans see things as Beginning-End.....Distance....Time.....Space.....Memory.....and this is seeing things in a Linear Time manner.

But in REALITY.....it is SPACE-TIME....as one cannot exist without the other....and Time is CONCURRENT....as well as REALITY IS FLUID.....and there are INFINITE versions of this Universal Reality.

AboveAlpha

 

Your statement of denying an attempt to convert anyone is highly skeptical, as your arguments are usually with Theists. There would be no point in arguing with fellow non-theists now would there? You recognize the futility of anyone attempting to convert you because of your steadfast beliefs ... and you have also recognized that same condition being in those that are Theists... yet you continue to argue with them. Is there a logical reason to arguing with what you consider to be futility? Seems a little bit illogical or perhaps tainted with a little deficiency in integrity and honesty.

 

Hello Katchy... I am still waiting to hear from you on this one.

 

I believe Nature must be "objective reality" while Nurture must be subjective reality.

 

I really love those two words. Makes it nearly impossible to successfully refute. Congratulations on presenting such a solid foundation. Seriously.