What is single payer?

Your imaginary yacht would be sinking because here are the FACTS.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/immigration/socialsecurity.asp

 

This thread is not silence.

As far as actually paying for it there is no reason to believe that it is going to double our taxes. As was posted above when the massive overhead (and price inflation) is removed by eliminating the private insurance overhead the cost of healthcare is affordable.

Medicare operates with a 3% overhead meaning that 97 cents out of every tax dollar goes towards paying for treatments. Compare that to private insurance where only 80 to 84 cents out of every dollar goes towards treatments.

As someone mentioned you only get what you pay for and what we here in America are paying for are the massive profits going to shareholders of insurance corporations.

Now if you really want a question that has ALWAYS been met with silence here it is.

What is the moral justification for making a 20% profit from treating a sick child?

 

Snopes again when will you guys learn? That like quoting CNN or the NYT it doesn't mean anything to normal people.

 

No I assume facts that are unavoidable. The government taking it over does not remove the impact of supply and demand. The government cannot create an infinite supply of health care. The things that drive health care costs are supply, demand,and technological improvements. Ultimately the only way to control costs is to control access to either technology, or doctors or both.

 

Yeah, like Medicare that failed and disappeared in 1968. Oh wait.......

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I see you don't know how payroll taxes work.

 

Why am I not in the least surprised that the extremist alt right is allergic to facts and reality?

 

This...unfortunately this is the mentality of the right and Trump...so we can just trash this good idea of single payer, perhaps argue for it in 2020.

Arnt we supposed to lose SS under Trump as well? or at least raise the age to like 89 in order to qualify for like 50% of your own money, perhaps he will just let everyone be able to draw on it during the incoming recession...that would seal the deal.
Hell why have health insurance at all, everyone should be responsible for them selves.

 

How about I start quoting Infowars on here as a source? Same thing as Snopes only Alex Jones has a better looking website.

 

"Buy"? How does that work. "Allow"? National healthcare must be based on the principle of everyone contributing and everyone having access to benefits when needed. "Allowing" people to "buy in" is what is destroying the ACA. Just eliminate the payroll tax cap and open it to everyone for the same monthly premium as it is now.

 

The profit driven healthcare insurance monopoly has been causing price inflation.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4191326/

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/seven-factors-driving-your-health-care-costs/

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Attacking the source because you cannot refute the FACTS?

 

Social Security and Medicare have been controlled by the federal government without them failing, but that does not mean they were properly managed. They have been borrowed against and frought with redtape.

 

Again sir my source is the fact that government cannot create an infinite supply of health care therefore you inevitably reach a point at which the only way to control costs is to control demand which means cutting someone somewhere for some reason out of the loop.

 

This is such a broad topic, it is difficult to know where to even begin. I made a singular focused comment about the absurdity of claiming that the government can pay for 20% of our economy via a modest tax increase. Do you care to actually address what I said ? I am not a big fan of circular conversations that never end because the topic keeps changing and no claims are actually examined to assess their validity. That is precisely why I only mentioned one topic. Do you honestly think this can be funded via a "modest" tax increase?

 

Your sympathy and concern about people getting universal healthcare unfortunately is going to lead to doctor and hospital shortages like not seen in recent memory. Thanks for caring though because it's the thought that counts.

 

I know full well how payroll taxes work. Do you understand the difference between federal income tax and payroll tax ? If you recall, I very specifically said "federal income tax". If I had said taxes, your reply would have been a great "gotcha". Since I didn't however, your reply is meaningless.

 

Or in the case of France no dialysis after 68. Or in Greece no surgery to remove a benign tumor that is slowly strangling from your neck at seventy.

 

I very specifically said "federal income tax" which is a separate entity from payroll tax. Judging from above, it seems you are not alone in this confusion.

 

Medicare only has a 3% overhead and Social Security overhead is less than 1%.

https://www.ssa.gov/oact/STATS/admin.html

So there is no unnecessary "red tape" in spite of all of the partisan disinformation out there.

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Except that fearmongering does not actually have any credible basis whatsoever.

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Payroll taxes are federal taxes and the onus is entirely on you to prove that they are not.

 

So single payer will supposedly save over all costs...just like thre Obamacare was supposed to save on overall costs?

No thanks, I'll pass.

Besides saving on "over all cost" is barely a consideration. Forcing an otherwise peaceful person into participation in a system they don't want to participate in is of primary concern.

 

You do understand that the government is paying for the seniors now? Why do you believe that covering the healthy percentage of our healthy population will limit the ability to pay for the unhealthy ones, since it is the healthy individuals who pay for it now and will in every case of private or government run health providers.

 

Medicare reimbursement is designed to be a disincentive to treat higher risk patients.
Nobody gets rewarded for taking on a high risk heart patient if the outcome is good.
But hospitals and physicians are economically punished for the bad outcome.
This is not taking care of patients. This is not medicine as it should be. This is playing statistics to satisfy useless government bureaucrats who are incapable of delivering care themselves.

"Quality" measures are designed to cut off care to higher risk patients.
This is the disguised truth of single payer systems.

 

I don't mean to be a fear mongerer but when I see socialist states like Venezuela encouraging their citizens to grow their own food because of shortages it makes me want to warn people about socialism and socialized medicine.

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Hmm...last I checked this is America, and doctor/hospital shortages seem like Job opportunity. And because single payer is not socialized medicine, what you say is just plain false.

 

Pay attention. I said "federal income tax" NOT federal taxes. The distinction between federal taxes and federal income tax is important. Federal taxes is a generic term referring to monies collected by the federal government. Federal Income Tax, and payroll tax however, are two separate line items on a tax return form. They have very specific meanings and definitions. The line item payroll tax, among other things, differs greatly from Federal income tax in that payroll taxes are typically paid at least in part by the employer.

http://smallbusiness.chron.com/difference-between-payroll-tax-income-tax-56388.html

I believe that I just proved my point replete with an explanation and a credible link. You are welcome, because forevermore going forward you will now know this distinction, and you will have me to thank. I am more than happy to shine a light on glaring ignorance.

 

Well, if the ACA and hospitals/doctors making record profits didn't solve this, the previous system was far worse.

Or does no one remember record numbers of declined claim letters coming in peoples mailbox.