What is the reason for our economic problems?

Discussion in 'Economics & Trade' started by Anders Hoveland, Aug 19, 2012.

?

Which of these are contributing to our economic problems?

  1. free trade agreements, outsourcing jobs

    50.0%
  2. national debt

    43.8%
  3. immigration

    37.5%
  4. growing inequality

    37.5%
  5. excessive taxation / government waste

    68.8%
  6. national central banks / Federal Reserve / bailouts

    43.8%
  7. western wealth being transferred away to developing countries

    25.0%
  8. scarcity of oil

    6.3%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. Reiver

    Reiver Well-Known Member

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    No, you've constructed a cretinous definition that makes no sense. Your original attempt at definition, for example, is consistent with achieving mutually beneficial exchange. Economic nationalism is very much about supporting the folly of trade as a zero sum game.
     
  2. Anikdote

    Anikdote Well-Known Member

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    The biggest recipients of "handouts" are the elderly, this is just an ill-informed position.

    Are any other bankers culpable or just the Jews?
     
  3. mikemikev

    mikemikev Banned

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    And that's because China total exports to U.S. are significantly higher than vice versa. It benefits them to have as low a mutual rate as possible. In spite of this, they still have a higher tariff rate. They are practicing economic nationalism. The U.S. is practicing kum bah yah idiocy and collapsing.

    And yet this is not even the main problem.

    The main problem is:

    1) Minority handouts
    2) Jewish bankers
     
  4. Reiver

    Reiver Well-Known Member

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    You continue to give misinformation. Now that you've been informed of the effective tariff rates (and that information certainly destroys your argument), this is deliberate misinformation.
     
  5. mikemikev

    mikemikev Banned

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    No it's not. You just want to call Economic Nationalism a "zero sum game" to discredit it. It simply isn't. It's about benefiting yourself, whether or not that benefits others. And you accuse me of "cretinism"? Please.
     
  6. Reiver

    Reiver Well-Known Member

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    No, unlike you, I simply bother with validity. Economic nationalism is indeed the modern version of mercantilism (which, since Ricardo and Smith, cannot be embedded within any general economic approach) and therefore a cretinous abuse of the zero sum game.
     
  7. mikemikev

    mikemikev Banned

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  8. Reiver

    Reiver Well-Known Member

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    Basic error. You need to refer to effective tax rates. Given the extensive use of exemptions, they are substantially lower than statutory rates. And of course you've already been presented with that information and it describes the severity of your misinformation
     
  9. mikemikev

    mikemikev Banned

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    No, you are just making up nonsense. If I define "Economic Nationalism" to mean acting in the National interest, that's what you argue against. What term would you use to mean "acting in the national economic interest", other than "economic nationalism". Your argument is ridiculous sophistry, artificially redefining common terms. Don't tell me what I mean. I will tell you.
     
  10. mikemikev

    mikemikev Banned

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    China's tariffs are higher than U.S. This is indisputable. I have no more interest in demonstrating this. Anyone can look it up and see who is correct. This thread is about the reason for our economic problems, and that is:

    1) Minority handouts
    2) Jewish bankers

    China exports and imports pale in comparison.
     
  11. Reiver

    Reiver Well-Known Member

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    You stated "China has huge import tariffs". That is cobblers! The effective tariff rate has been shown to be low.
     
  12. Reiver

    Reiver Well-Known Member

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    No, unlike you, I'm using economic analysis. You have been reliant on spreading nonsense. You started with a silly comment about mutually beneficial exchange. You've now made a nonsensical comment that it refers to acting in the national interest. That is obvious drivel. Health and safety regulations, for example, are in the nation's interest but have nothing to do with economic nationalism. The problem is that your understanding of economics is low and that has led you to make very basic error in political economy
     
  13. Albert Di Salvo

    Albert Di Salvo New Member

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    I suggest that they figure things out for themselves.
     
  14. mikemikev

    mikemikev Banned

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    It was you that claimed:

    1) Economic Nationalism was a zero sum game - totally false.
    2) China did not have higher tariffs than the U.S. - totally false.

    and now:

    3) Economic nationalism is not acting in the interest of the National Economy - totally false (and ridiculous)

    You are just resorting to gratuitous abuse - "spreading nonsense, silly comment, nonsensical comment, obvious drivel, your understanding of economics is low, you make a very basic error"

    You are trying to take this thread on a tangent and discredit me to avoid discussing the real reason for our economic problems, with figures which dwarf China exports:

    1) Minority handouts
    2) Jewish bankers
     
  15. Albert Di Salvo

    Albert Di Salvo New Member

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    China has non-tariff barriers to imports. For example, they force foreign concerns to transfer intellectual property to the Chinese as the price of admission.
     
  16. Reiver

    Reiver Well-Known Member

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    We can refer to non-tariff barriers in all countries.
     
  17. Reiver

    Reiver Well-Known Member

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    I've used economic analysis correctly. In contrast, you haven't even achieved resemblance of coherency.

    And now you openly fib! How crass. You've been guilty of misrepresentation. You probably did it out of assumption. Your continued clinging to misrepresentation, however, suggests a ideological problem inconsistent with reality.

    Economic nationalism, through the corruption of trade policy, harms the domestic economy. This again reflects your inability to construct a coherent argument based on relevant political economy
     
  18. Albert Di Salvo

    Albert Di Salvo New Member

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    America doesn't have enough of these non-tariff barriers. That's going to change as America's role in the world is reduced.
     
  19. Anikdote

    Anikdote Well-Known Member

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    Of course it is, that's where it's nonsense stems from. It's the only way to justify the argument that exports are good and imports are bad.

    No one made that claim. You made the claim they had high tariffs, and you were wrong.

    Wrong again. Protectionism, tariffs and other trade barriers harm the country that implements them.

    You do that all by yourself.
     
  20. Reiver

    Reiver Well-Known Member

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    A silly comment. Such barriers harm the available gains from trade
     
  21. mikemikev

    mikemikev Banned

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    No one was trying to justify that argument. It is another ridiculous black and white strawman.

    It is your opinion that tariffs harm the country. It is not the opinion of the economists running China. Despite the fact that export from China are higher than to, and low mutual tariffs benefit them, they still have higher tariffs. And their economy is rising. This tells us about your "opinion".

    You are trying to divert the discussion to Chinese trade because the real reason the economy is in a mess is:

    1) Minority handouts
    2) Jewish bankers

    Are you uncomfortable discussing that?
     
  22. Reiver

    Reiver Well-Known Member

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    No, its an economic reality. We've known that since Ricardo.

    China has drastically cut its protection levels. You again make no sense!
     
  23. mikemikev

    mikemikev Banned

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    You are trying to divert the discussion to Chinese trade because the real reason the economy is in a mess is:

    1) Minority handouts
    2) Jewish bankers

    Are you uncomfortable discussing that?
     
  24. Anikdote

    Anikdote Well-Known Member

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    That's not an opinion. It's a fact:
    http://economics.about.com/cs/taxpolicy/a/tariffs.htm

    Literally tons of source to back up the claim.
     
  25. mikemikev

    mikemikev Banned

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    You are missing the point but no matter. We are not here to discuss tariffs. We are here to discuss "What is the reason for our economic problems?" We know bailouts and mortgage defaults, Mexican citizen welfare, Goldman-Sach profits etc. etc. dwarf Chinese trade.

    Why are we discussing Chinese trade? Can you explain?
     

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