What would #metoo for men look like?

Since October 15, 2017 when Sexual Harassment of several women by Harvey Weinstein was revealed, the hashtag #metoo has been used by many women to speak up about Sexual Harassment they have experienced. During the first day, the hashtag has been used in 500 thousand tweets and 12 million Facebook posts. By the end of November, tens of very powerful men and thousands ordinary men have been accused of Sexual Harassment going back to 1970s. Some of the accused have confessed their guilt, while in many or most cases the allegations have neither been proven nor disproved.

As expected, following these allegations, countless articles in the Mainstream Media blamed all men for the wrongs of some men. Some men who are not guilty of anything have also joined with self-blame. For instance, an article titled "How, if You’re a Man, to Deal With the Fact That You’re Probably Trash" got too many agreeing comments -- not only from women but allegedly from men.

While many Progressive men are happy to use this opportunity to explore their guilt, other men have asked what #meeto movement for male victims would look like? Some men and women have suggested including men's stories into the existing \#meeto movement. While this suggestion has some merit, it has two weak points. First, while many men have been abused and discriminated in many ways, few men have experienced Sexual Harassment. Second, modern society is absolutely not understanding of men's experiences.

My first point has been stated by the Mainstream Media and hundreds of thousands of online commenters -- few men have experienced Sexual Harassment by women. That being true, most men have experienced other forms of abuse and discrimination. According to "Differences in Frequency of Violence and Reported Injury Between Relationships With Reciprocal and Nonreciprocal Intimate Partner Violence", 19% of all men have experienced nonreciprocal physical abuse in intimate relationships. According to "Prevalence and Characteristics of Sexual Violence, Stalking, and Intimate Partner Violence Victimization — National Intimate Partner and Sexual Violence Survey, United States, 2011", about 46% of men have experienced emotional abuse. Many of the male victims of Domestic Violence are arrested rather then helped by the Law Enforcement. Most men are negatively effected by male bashing in Mainstream Media. Most divorced men have experienced severe discrimination.

Unfortunately, Modern Society is not ready to accept men telling their stories of abuse and discrimination. Men expressing anger at anti-male discrimination and male bashing are ostracised everywhere online and off-line except for a diminishing number of groups and forums. A 2017 man complaining about losing most of his property to an ex wife who abused him for years would get more derision then support. The vast majority of men would not be interested in sharing something that would not give them sympathy.

Hopefully, as more men become aware of the discrimination and undeserved hate they are facing, things will change. Most likely, following a Democratic victory in 2020, discrimination against men will escalate for the next eight years. But this very discrimination along with men's fear of being socially and vocationally destroyed by an unproven or anonymous allegation will drive more men toward Men's Human Rights and MGTOW movements. According to "American National Election Study of 2016", 5.5% of men feel there is a great deal of discrimination against men, another 9% feel there is a lot of discrimination, and another 18\% feel there is moderate amount of discrimination. Men can do better!

A decade of Social Media groups and videos dealing with anti-male discrimination has produced a relatively small counterculture of men and some women aware of these issues. There are 450,000 MGTOW videos, and most of them have high like-to-dislike ratio. Even though these groups and videos may soon be banned by the Social Media, it would be impossible to censor all Internet channels. Hopefully, MGTOW and Men's Human Rights groups will see the growth of their audiences. Hopefully, by 2040 we would have a generation sensitive to men's issues and raised by three decades of Social Media activism.

Hopefully, that 45 year old man addicted to brain circuitry would be able to afford the latest therapy and start his own business. He has very little money, but he has good case against the police department that arrested him in 2017 after his girlfriend attacked him with a knife. She was the only one violent in relationship, but according to Duluth Model he was the Primary Aggressor.

 

Well because sexual assault of men and boys isn't taken seriously, it would be a joke or a lucky boy that got to bone his teacher.

 

Harassment requires the attention to be understandably offensive. Most men are not offended by the sexual advances of women, even if they're not interested. So it isn't harassment.

Much of the sexual 'harassment' that women claim isn't actually (technically) harrassment either, because the woman never told the advancer that the advances are unwelcome (and no, 'hints' don't count- verbal clarity is important because not everyone uses/understands the same body language, innuendo or 'vibes' [mind reading]).

 

But yet males who are assaulted by other men sexually Are taken very seriously . People didn’t call the accusers of Kevin Spacey liars. People didn’t blame the boys the priests molested. But you’re just talking about a fantasy and perhaps that is why men cannot understand that a woman does not like being the victim and not believed

 

Well now thanks to the brave women who started this revolution the messages will be a lot clearer. It is very simplistic to blame the women who are usually weaker and in more vulnerable positions than to blame the men who are exploiting them..Even saying no doesn’t always stop them unfortunately

 

Why does it have to be about 'blame'?

We're all different and we're all made uncomfortable by different things. We can either sensor everyone and enforce a high level of caution in all interpersonal interactions to make sure that no one accidentally offends anyone or makes anyone uncomfortable, or we can promote tolerance and openness and expect people to communicate their discomfort with eachother before we start allocating blame or fault.

We cant have an open, tolerant society *and* expect that no one is going to ever be offended or made uncomfortable. Those things are mutually exclusive.

 

To respond to the OP. There is workplace abuse of men. Both my other men, and women. James VanDerBeek expressed some of his accounts. If you look at the Coreys, they certainly were abused. It happens.

What doesn't happen is support for it. Sure, women can complain that they weren't able to combat abuse, they rely on their "fairer sex" excuse. But men don't have that excuse, do they? As men, aren't we supposed to be able to combat this on our own? Aren't we as men, expected to do so?

 

Um you must be joking. No, sexual assault of males is treated like a joke. In fact I've seen many stand up routines about it. To Absolutly zero public outcry. Its joked about on sitcoms too.

Daniel Tosh makes a rape joke feminists lose their ****.

If feminism is supposed to be equality of the sexes than they should fight for the same treatment.

All I ever hear feminists bitching about is how more CEOs aren't women, imaginary wage gaps and nonsense that only matters to a big fat blue haired land whale that is furious that they aren't considered beautiful.

Spacey didn't deny it.

Which ones?

You shouldn't be believed. It should be taken seriously but the burden of proof is on the accuser.

If feminism is all about men being convicted of being guilty at the simple cry of rape it is not only toxic but it also seeks to undermine our criminal justice system. So thank you for giving more reason to find feminism repugnant.

 

We take all rape seriously..What you were doing is making a ridiculous argument. You are assuming because we focus on the most prevalent form of rape which is male against female, then we don’t care about men being raped. Of course we care about it......and we address it. It is usually males who commit these acts. Come on you are a big boy, but yet you want women to fight your causes. Because one doesn’t actively support sickle cell anemia, you would conclude that we don’t care about it. We can only fight so much.
Rape jokes are not funny….and people should be sensitive about it. Millions of women have had their lives destroyed by their experiences with rape.
And your sexist insult about big fat blue land whales is childish and immature. And calling wage gaps imaginary shows your lack of education...Don’t you bother to educate yourself? I guess not because Trump won’t love you.
Can I assume that the boys who were sexually assaulted by priests are all liars? Can I assume all those women claiming weinstein and Cosby were inappropriate were all liars?
Let me educate you about something else called circumstantial evidence. When enough women who do not know each other describe the same method of abuse there comes a point when a jury can make the decision whether it is legitimate or not. Maybe women who are raped should just remain quiet because after all rapists don’t seem to do it in public
I’m sorry you find feminism repugnant because it encourages women to speak about sexual harassment and sexual assault, but that doesn’t surprise me at all. After all millions of women are just all liars. Sounds like you’ve been damaged along the way. But what I also find offensive is trivializing rape and imagining that women just cry rape to get men in trouble rather than the real problem of men raping . It is the opposite. Women are silent about rape and you are the reason why

 

show me.

show men raping women in girls is more prevalent so show me.

this contradicts your previous post where you said men should care about those things.

you just said you cared about them and that you address them. These two statements contradict one another.

And if you truly believe in equality of the Sexes you would care and fight for them equally.

I honestly don't know of this majority or large number of men that think women should be abused.

if you are fighting for equal representation of people who suffer from different diseases then absolutely I would say it is because you don't care about it.

If I am to believe that feminism is the fight for equality of the sexes then you need to represent both sexes.

funny how you find the time to bitch complain about a man sitting on the bus without losing his legs. It seems you're running out of things to be outraged about and you having to make them up to continue usefulness.

humor is subjective. Some people may find rape jokes funny.

I personally thought it was hilarious. But again humor is subjective.

number one first and foremost it is absolutely illegal to pay a woman less then you pay a man who does the same job. So wage gaps don't exist because they are illegal. Second if you could get away with paying a woman less than a man our Workforce would be dominated by women. If you could get the same labor out of them for less money it would make perfect sense to only hire them.

There is a difference in earnings. This is based largely on the personal choices women make. They don't want to put in the long hours they don't want to work the brutal back breaking jobs that men are more than willing to do.

I am trying to educate you.

I would advise you not to assume anything. I wouldn't assume that people claiming Weinstein and Cosby were inappropriate with them are correct and I would not assume that Cosby and Weinstein are not sexual perverts. I would let the justice system work.

I was just a police officer for 2 years I don't know s*** about evidence.

Do know about culpability do you know about burden of proof do you know about thresholds of proof? Do you know about the Constitution the 6th Amendment? Do you have any clue at all about laws governing Criminal prosecution?

A person is innocent until proven guilty. Just because the alleged victim is female and the alleged crime against her is heinous does not mean we now have a kangaroo court.

no feminism does not do that Humanity does that. You take a poll of the people in the u.s. how many of them the like rape and think it should be permitted I guarantee you it will be a fraction of a percent.

Everybody in this country wants to put those scum bags in jail as fast as we can. All feminism does is want us to destroy the Constitution and give women the power to hold of Witchcraft Trials.

Raping women has always been a crime.

because of your strawman? That's your brain child.

so what you need to do it's call out women who make false rape allegations. They are the ones trivializing it. It is because we don't want to put someone who is innocent into jail that we require a substantial level of proof.

well in that case no the problem really is the 6th Amendment. Legally we cannot prosecute someone based on the allegations of someone else we did that one time and it was called the Witchcraft Trials.

 

This is getting silly. I can’t argue with someone who thinks men are victims of rape as much as women. Or someone who thinks women don’t care about all rape victims. Who do you think initiates seminars for rape prevention and sexual harrassement?
You’re right, humor is subjective. I guess you see humor in rape, I don’t.i bet you think lynching jokes are a hoot

As far as wage discrepancy is concerned, women didn’t have options . We were teachers, nurses and secretaries...so yes we could be paid less because we were powerless. The newspapers had separate employment columns for men and women etc.... it now there are new problems. Because of the women’s movement and equal opportunities the same women who were teachers are becoming lawyers and stock brokers and CPAs. The same women who were channeled into nursing are now more than half the medical schools. I am hired in June to try to encourage teachers to stay in the profession,,,and they are having a hard time finding the best, that’s why salaries are rising. Do you think garbage collectors should earn
more than teachers? Accountants? Etc?
That’s wonderful that you are so open about Cosby and weinstein...I’m sure you didn’t say anything about OJ and I bet you think he’s not guilty.
Surprising that a police officer doesn’t know about circumstantial evidence. So unless a person is raped in public, there can be no crime. And you wonder why people are reluctant to report their abuse?
You act as though there are many men in prison for rape who are innocent, let me inform you officer, rape is the easiest crime to get away with..thanks to people like you..and any woman who reports a false rape should be in prison!

 

This duplicate post of yours was already responded to by Poly.

 

We expect men to have sufficient insight to recognise when their advances are unlikely to be reciprocated. Once again, I return to the old adage .. which remains true today: If she's out of your league, it's harassment. If you're in her (or higher) league, it's flattery.

League being: same level of physical attractiveness, and same age.

 

Thats a bunch of crap. You cant tell 'leagues' by appearance alone.

Well, Im sure some people can, but many cant. Its not reasonable to expect them to be able to. Thats basically coerced self-sensorship of the 'undesirable.'

 

of course you can. and appearances is all we have when amongst strangers. it should be the very first question when men see a female they like the look of. if they're not asking themselves: a) am I in her age range?, and b) am I in her looks range?, they're going about it all wrong, and have no one to blame but themselves if it bites them.

 

Theres a substantial difference between hostile rejection and accusations of harassment. Nothing wrong with the former, but the latter is abuse of the law.

 

The point is - and I understand this is 'unfair', but nature dictates these things - if you're a good looking guy, and roughly the same age as your target, you can get away with stuff which no ordinary guy can get away with, much less an unattractive or much older one.

Since we know this about the mammalian mating game, it's on men to work within those parameters. It's the men who try to step outside of these parameters who end up in trouble (speaking purely in terms of ordinary flirtation and minor touchy-feelies). Look at any herd or pack of social mammals, where males from lower in the pecking order try to mate with the alpha females. What happens to them? Killed or driven off by the higher males.

 

Thats all fine. Reporting someone for harassment because ur too chickenshit to tell them to **** off yourself is not a defensible act.

 

It’s abuse of the law to report sexual harassment? I don’t think so

 

Class...this is an example of victim blaming

 

If you dont tell the person that they're harassing you before you report them, it is.

 

If you report someone for harassing you when they don't know they're harassing you, you make them the victim.

Its shouldnt be that difficult to say 'Im flattered, but not interested' or 'leave me alone, creep' or '**** off' before dialing 911.

 

We wouldn't have to worry about it if men kept the primitive drivers (aka, rules) in mind. We would then never be 'harassed' by men who are trying to play outside of the rules.

FTR, I see this phenomenon - men trying to escape the rules - as a result of 'civilisation'. When primitive conditions (constant potential for starvation, etc) are no longer present, some make the mistake of thinking the primitive drivers no longer apply, and that alternate paths to conquest are acceptable. While this is true of SOME drivers (killing each other over a hunk of meat, for example), the mating driver - probably the most primitive of all - is unshakeable.

 

They should know that they're not 'alpha' enough to get away with it. We can't know that for them, they have to have insight and self-honesty.

Just as in the wolf pack, the lower order males know not to try. The odd foolish one (those who end up dead or outcast) might, but most don't.

 

Does that mean its acceptable to use Law Enforcement to punish those that dont have 'insight and self-honesty'?