What you know about Russia?

Inquisitor, I'm sorry if the post above may seem rough...

But I get beside myself when I see that its still being kinda "breaking news" for americans that Russia is no more a communist state.

(BTW, communism is also demonized by your propaganda).

 

I think you are right,but I want to ask,have you read the work 《A Sportsman's Notebook》?what do think about it?

 

As far as I understand this is the name of English translation of the Turgenev's short stories series " Записки охотника ". Translators not always literally translate names of books, this is why sometimes it is very difficult to understand which work do you mean, because I know the name of the original. If you mean the same work, I have read it but very much for a long time ago, being the schoolboy. I have read it as a part of the school course of the Russian literature. I like Turgenev but speaking about the Russian classical literature, I'm more the fan of Pushkin and Gogol. My favourite Pushkin's works are "Eugene Onegin", "Dubrovsky", " Young lady peasant ", most of all " The young lady peasant ". Also I have read a lot of his verses. Actually I have grown up reading his poetic retellings of Russian national fairy tales. I like Gogol because on the one hand he is mystic a little, on the other hand he wrote very good satire. From Leo Tolstoy I have read only "War and peace", "Anna Korenina".

 

Considering anti-Russian trolls on this forum and the amount of anti-Russian propaganda poured all over the West, especially from GB I do not blame you. The Inquisitor’s Guide says: “ In difficulties and unexpected incidents, The Inquisitor must remain calm and never make a concession to ire or indignation. In uncertain questions, he must be cautious and not believe easily that which seems probable, because often what seems improbable ends by being the truth. He must listen, discuss, and examine with all his zeal in order to arrive patiently at the truth.”

There may be more commies in the University of LA than in whole Moscow, ( communism is not demonized here, it's the opposite) but the propaganda has not evaporated yet in Moscow. You reference contained stamps of the propaganda.

In a debate or conversation if one makes a statement and somebody comments on it and the comment has no objection to the statement the statement is considered as the truth accepted by those who comment.

The main concern is that You have not been answering simple questions.


Stalin had over 20,000 tanks, Hitler hardly had 4,000. Stalin had and Hitler had not amphibious tanks, heavy tanks, diesel tank, fast tanks (BT). No less important is the fact that Stalin could produce times more tanks and tank men more than Hitler.

You say 100,000 paratroopers. Litvak in the video posted by me was not in a military but she won over her instructor in a dog fight. Thousands of trained pilots were represented to the West as sportsmen, some kind of golfers. The same was with the golfers who were trained to jump with parachutes and shoot a rifle, who as golfers and peaceful civilian sportsmen were not counted as a part of 100,000.

Stalin had 100, 000 paratroopers officially plus tens of thousands of golfers, when Hitler had a few “small battalions”.

In the first 2 months of war Stalin lost 80% of his military potential. With 20% left he took Berlin. If Hitler did not attack and if Stalin had 100% of his military potential, all the west would be singing International in a year or so. Another side of the coin is that it wouldn’t any better for the West if peoples of Russia did not liberate it from Hitler. I bow my head.

Making a few notes: Russia used to be a major player in European affairs for centuries. Bismarck said: ‘’You want to know secrets of politics? Make a good treaty with Russia”. In 18** the Russian Army victoriously marched through Europe and Paris. It wouldn’t hurt you to dig through correspondence of Russian Tsars with American Founding Fathers. It wouldn’t hurt you to know that Russian oil Industry was set up by Alphred Noble, yes the Nobel Prize, he is buried at Smolensk. It wouldn’t hurt you to know that the US was not more literate than Russia. If you knew a little bit about history of Russia you would see she never was looking backwards as the Commie propaganda has brainwashed you. There were ups and downs but she always was a major player and an equal relative of the West. Godless gangs brought its image down to an image of a 3rd world barbarian country.

You are blessed with Putin. It really looks like he is out “For God and for the country” rather than for himself or any godless ‘’–ism’’.

I am not pointing a finger into anybody's face or anybody's past. In the past I was an atheist.

I am just saying the truth sets you free.

 

You're becoming an interesting interlocutor! I'm pleased to meet such a hard but erudite opponent!

I give neutral prooflinks, that you claim as propaganda cause they show your statements were wrong.

You mistake (if it is a mistake) is a doubling and exaggerating of data.
At the begining of war there were 15 687 (not over 20 000) tanks in all the spaciousness of the Soviet Union.
The grouping of Soviet troops in the West of the USSR contained 13,924 tanks (of which 11 135 serviceable).
However, please note that directly in the 50-km border zone there were located only 8 of Soviet divisions, and 10 were in the 50-100 km from the border.

http://http://militera.lib.ru/research/meltyukhov/12.html

That's true, but western allies also had such a possibility.
Does it mean they were going to conqure Europe or the USSR before Hitler?

Give a prooflink to understand your point.

True, allmost all of Soviet Army that met German Army in June 41 was lost till November 41.
But Soviets recruited new soldiers.
True is also that Germans didn't attack the USSR with 100% available army and also recruited new divisions and new and new later till time came to throw their Hitlerjugend as paper to the warfire.

It Soviets wanted they could reach the Atlantics crashing out any resistence, but they didn't.

http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9E%D0%BF%D0%B5%D1%80%D0%B0%D1%86%D0%B8%D1%8F_%C2%AB%D0%9D%D0%B5%D0%BC%D1%8B%D1%81%D0%BB%D0%B8%D0%BC%D0%BE%D0%B5%C2%BB

Thanks for your balanced position.
I may not agree with you but I start to respect you.
That is the goal PoliticalForum.com is generally designed for.
For a real interesting discussion.

But I ask you not to continue our conversation here in "What you know about Russia?" thread.
You (or me if you ask to) may start a new one that would better fit the topic, ok?

 

We must bear in mind that these divisions were stretched along the front of 2000 km. From the Black Sea to the Barents Sea. At the moment the war began June 21, 1941, the Germans concentrated their forces in a fist. So the numerical superiority of the Red Army had been reduced to zero.

But you are right when you say:

 

Hitler and Stalin had a lot more in common with each other than anyone else in Europe.

- both were nationalists of a country not their own (Hitler was an Austrian german nationalist and Stalin was a Georgian russian nationalist)
- both were willing to use ideologies to blind people to very immoral behavior
- both had no problems whatsoever with killing millions of innocent people (Stalin said 'one death is a tragedy; a million deaths is a statistic')
- both were willing to create and maintain a secret police apparatus to terrorize the population and root out any real or imagined opposition
- both were willing to expand their borders at the expense of others (including dividing up Poland between them)
- both had rather unsatisfactory personal lives
- both had a very ruthless view of military affairs and how their troops should behave (Stalin said 'a man would have to be very brave not to be a hero in my army')
- both cultivated cults of personality that elevated them to near Godhood

My personal belief is that Stalin closed his eyes to the imminent Nazi invasion of the Soviet Union because he felt he had reached a quid pro quo with his equal and that Hitler and he understood each other. This would also explain the almost extreme sense of betrayal Stalin exhibited in the weeks after the invasion began.

 

As our beloved boss use to say:"If someone is an idiot,it seems to hold for a long time".

 

Uncle Ferd knows a lot `bout Russia...

... when it gets cold in Siberia...

... dem Cossacks get drunk on vodka...

... an' den dey squat down an' dance an' slap their butts with their heels.

 

That is just talk. I can compare Roosevelt and Hitler or de Gaulle just in the same way.

 

They crossed over the border the hour before dawn
moving in lines through the day
Most of our planes were destroyed on the ground t'were they lay
Waiting for orders we held in the wood
Word from the front never came
By evening the sound of the gunfire was miles away

I softly move through the shadows, slip away through the trees
Crossing their lines in the mist in the fields on our hands and our knees

And all that i ever
Was able to see
The fire in the air, glowing red
Silhouetting the smoke on the breeze

All summer they drove us back through the Ukraine
Smolensk and Viasma soon fell
By Autumn we stood with backs to the town of Orel
Closer and closer to Moscow they come
Riding the wind like a bell
General Guderian stands at the crest of the hill

Winter brought with the rains, oceans of mud filled the roads
Gluing the tracks of their tanks to the ground, while the skies filled with snow

And all that I ever
Was able to see
The fire in the air, glowing red
Silhouetting the snow on the breeze



In the footsteps of Napoleon, the shadow figures stagger through the winter
Falling back before the gates of Moscow, standing in the wings like an avenger
And far away behind their lines, the partisans are stirring in the forest
Coming unexpectedly upon their outpost, growing like a promise
You'll never know, you'll never know, which way to turn, which way to look you'll never see us
As we steal into the blackness of the night you'll never know, you'll never hear us

And evening sings in a voice of amber, the dawn is surely coming
The morning road leads to Stalingrad, and the sky is softly humming

Two broken tigers on fire in the night
Flicker their souls to the wind
We wait in the lines for the final approach to begin
It's been almost four years that I've carried a gun
At home, it will almost be spring
The flames of the tiger are lighting the road to Berlin

I quickly move through the ruins that bow to the ground
The old men and children they send out to face us, they can't slow us down

And all that I ever
Was able to see
The eyes of the city are opening
Now it's the end of a dream




I'm coming home, I'm coming home , now you can taste it in the wind the war is over
And I listen to the clicking of the train wheels as we roll across the border
And now they ask about the time that i was caught behind their lines and taken prisoner
They only held me for a day, a lucky break i say
They turn and listen closer
I'll never know, I'll never know, why I was taken from the line with all the others
to board a special train and journey deep into the heart of holy Russia

And it's cold and damp in the transit camp and the air is still and sullen
and the pale sun of October whispers the snow will soon be coming
And I wonder when, I'll be home again and the morning answers never
And the evening sighs and the steely, Russian skies go on,
forever...

 

Your link is ‘’only Russian’’ wiki. It is far from being neutral

‘’Staffed mainly by Volunteers on an appeal of The Komsomol.’’ – do you know what does it mean?

Doubling would be 15 687 x2=31,374. If you keep on trying to pull commies rhetoric on me I’ll see no need to continue. If instead of comparing forces on both sides in dynamics you keep on manipulating numbers and employing cheating rhetoric it is not going to work. 50-100 km is not unusual depth of a position of an Army, 2- 4 hours by a car… How far away was the 56th Army on 8-8-2008? Or it was 58th Army...?
The bottom line is there was no justification for Stalin to have over 15, 000 tanks when Hitler and all the west did not have even a ¼ of that. There was no justification for stalin to have 100 000 paratroopers ready and a lot more in reserve when the west did not even have any strategy of using paratroopers and had just a tactical few battalions.
Unless Stalin was in the process the permanent revolution.

The point was that the west did not have production lines of such a capability. All Europe under Hitler did never reach such a productivity (especially if to deduct captured Soviet lines).

What is that you cannot understand? Is it my English? Does Union of Societies of Assistance to Defence and Aviation-Chemical Construction of the USSR) created on January 27, 1927 by merging the Society of Assistance to Defence (Общество Содействия Обороне (ОС&#1054), Society of Friends of the Aviation Fleet (Общество друзей Воздушного флота (ОДВ&#1060) and Society of Friends of the Chemical Defense and Chemical Industry (Общество друзей химической обороны и химической промышленности (Доброхим ССС&#1056) ring a bell?
(Does it ring a bell== does it wake up some memories. )
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9sEVhi_9m88&feature=related"]YouTube - 共青团员之歌[苏]Комсомольцы-добровольцы[/ame]

For others: I refer Stalin’s paramiltary organisations. As early as in age of 14 everyone had to voluntere to such organisations, unless one was a criminal. After graduation a nman wouldn’t be officially counted as a part of a military but would be an accomplished paratrooper, sharp shooter, pilot etc…

According to the permanent mobilization plan Stalin was filing up divisions formed before war. Such a division could have only a few hundred men, it was like a skeleton – ready to be filled with meat and blood of mobilized – not recruited – men who already knew the place where they had to arrive to.

Another urge of commie rhetoric? Lol, Stalin mobilized Stalinjudend long before Hitler attacked him. Does Union of Societies of Assistance to Defence and Aviation-Chemical Construction of the USSR ring a bell?

quoting from .ru again.

Common, where U.S. General Dwight D. Eisenhower and the British Field Marshal B. Montgomery could hide from eyes and ears of Uncle Joe? Of course, only on a yacht off a coast. Is not it a reason to get drunk with some good old whiskey? If you were U.S. General Dwight D. Eisenhower and the British Field Marshal B. Montgomery would you do anything different? Please believe me a 12 years old scotch gives you even worse hangover than vodka Stoli when consumed in the same amounts.
Does the nuclear bomb ring a bell?

Common…

Common… Common, first you stated that the west had the same military potential as Stalin before the war now you state a totally opposite BS to feed me but not to engage in a fruitful discussion.

BTW. I counted the tanks myself. In my early teenage years I used to be hooked up on military, including tanks. I collected and compared technical data. Now I can find similar and professional collectors of the same kind on the Internet. The number of units produced is a technical data which is no less important than speed, thickness of armor and etc… I don’t remember when I stopped but it was well over 20,000. You can do it yourself.

 

I know that they enjoy murdering human rights journalists while claiming that they aren't actually carrying out a genocidal war against Chechen civilians (yet at the same time banning journalists from the area and "erasing" those who get on their bad side.)

I also know that most Russians seem to show pride in their murderous army who routinely massacre civilians in the Caucasus.

It's like the US really, both are large world powers who pick on weaker nations and attempt to bully those around them. The US is just a bit more media-savvy, at least they kind of manage brush off their image as an "evil" state.

Russia also deomnstrates great hypocricy, by backing separatists in South Ossetia and Abkhazia (both of which are in Georgia) while brutally suppressing seperatists in neighbouring North Ossetia, Dagestan, Ingushetia and Chechnya (all of which are in Russia)

Having said all that. I've nothing against Russian people, most seem quite nice, bar their support for their government.

My great aunt used to have the Russian Crown Jewels in her house in Dublin.

 

Thank you for your opinion. I invite you to a duel. I can refute every word you wrote. I can prove that you are wrong. But not in this topic. To do this, open a new topic. Do you agree?

 

_Inquisitor_ , you don't trust and laugh at serious Russian links, mumbling again and again about commie propaganda. That's the way you want to level down any infomation I post.
At one and the same time you want me to trust your personal hollow words (even not western links) that once you've counted Russian tanks, etc. and try to show that you are personally being a representative of absolute truth.

I see no reason to continue this useless conversation at least on this thread not devoted to WWII.

 

One commie agitator is down.

One, two, three.... five more to go.

 

So on, you were a commie agitator. It's shoсking

 

LOL!
You've only proved uselessness of talking to a man that closes his ears and only mumbles: "Commie propaganda! Commie propaganda! Commie propaganda!" spoiling a good thread.
It's your interlocutor's image got down. I was mistaken that I've met the american able to take a conversation. You're unable.
More than that. You gave a possibility to call all information you post, you personal experience, your links, etc. to be called also as lies and propaganda not even trying to communicate. Go on, agitator!

 

И любовь Россия !!!

 

So I decided to try to revive this thread by this post.

 

I know every thing from RUS-KIEV to August 1991, I was educated listening to the old Radio Moscow for 37 years!

 

Can a russian tell me, what are the relations beetwen Russian nation and Serbian, i know you guys have very good relations beetwen goverments but i wanna know about Population?

 

That is great. Where are you from?

Relations between Serbian people and Russian people are even better. Are you satisfied or you need a more detailed response?

 

I know they got better after the war of Kosova, yes i need more information if you have.

 

It is interesting what a guy from the Soviet Union, from a city wich doesn't exist in Russia, knows about Russia.

Except for balalayka and vodka, you probably heard about Stalin and the USSR. Something else?