They aren't nationalist. They are "give them some devolution and stop whining". Work out something that makes sense dear chappy
Nationalism is a belief, creed or political ideology that involves a mode of identification with individual persons and a nation. I stand by my posting.
If you're insistent in making nationalism as dull as your usual stance I would have to say "Nah, don't sneer at Beevee. He might be boring you now, but that is temporarily. He will soon swoon you with advanced comment that will scare the most poetic amongst us"
Pointless lumping those 3 parties in together under one label, since their ideologies have nothing whatsoever in common. The BNP are a xenophobic and racist extreme right-wing organisation, the other two are secessionist parties with a completely different sort of ideology altogether. Those extremist xenophobes that were involved in their early formative years lost the battle for the heart and soul of the parties and their policies decades ago, and such people would generally have no interest in the modern versions of those parties - they don't stand for what they believe in at all. Plaid is, for example, very definitely a socialist party (relatively moderate compared with some, but certainly a long way to the left of the modern Labour party), and the SNP wind up the BNP-types constantly with their positive encouragement of immigration. They are inclusive and internationalist parties committed to attaining 'home rule' for their countries and a consequent direct international voice for their people (so that they become democratically run according to the will of their own people (ALL of them, regardless of their race, religion, etc.), not according to the will of the larger and more populous country next door), not anti-immigration, racist, xenophobic nutters like the BNP. Any attempt to define them as being similar is sheer folly - the briefest examination of their policies, their statements and their records easily proves that, whether an individual supports those parties or not, it simply isn't true. Some people seem to struggle with this concept, of course, since the term 'nationalist' tends to get thrown around to apply to such different ideologies. It can be quite easily illustrated, though, with 2 songs by Scottish band The Proclaimers. They have been long time supporters of Independance for Scotland and the SNP, although at least one of them switched at one time to the Scottish Socialist Party over issues with the SNP courting 'Big Business'. Here's song no.1 - 'Cap in Hand' (with lyrics): [video=youtube;gApwpSWAhbQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gApwpSWAhbQ[/video] Very obviously a song about their support for independence. Now here's another, 'Scotland's Story' (again with lyrics) about their attitude to 'the people of Scotland' and immigration: [video=youtube;K_ekIS9QWSA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_ekIS9QWSA[/video] Now I know some people can't get beyond the common use of the term 'Nationalist', and can't seem to understand that wanting 'home rule' is not about being 'racist' or 'xenophobic' or being 'like the BNP' or 'hating' people who aren't 'their own' or whatever, but I'm afraid they're just going to have to get used to the idea, because it is reality. As for the original question of which party is actually 'worst', the answer, unless you happen to be in favour of racist xenophobia, or against the principle of 'we, the people' in charge of their own affairs through a system of democracy, is quite obviously the BNP.
Reading the rest of the post describes why they have nothing in common ideologically, and why the use of that term to describe all three is at best misleading. The media may habitually use that one term for all three parties, but that doesn't mean they actually share an ideology in common at all. The media are certainly not immune from being silly, or at the very least downright lazy! People always need to look beyond simplistic and lazy media 'sound-bite' reporting (especially, in this context, the limited reporting of secessionist parties that goes on outside of their own country) in order to discover the reality of what is actually going on in the world (and even on their own doorstep).
I don't think I've ever bothered to read your posts in their entirety. You're a natonalist after all; therefore you grandstand without comment The BNP want to harm Brits through their ideology. You want to do the same. I've seen the disease with how you demand the pursuit of the Welsh language to the detriment of the working poor Welsh peoples. Same ole! At least the BNP are semi-honest about it...
Figures - not a great way to conduct a debate, simply ignoring what anybody else says. No, I am not, as it happens. If you read a bit more, you'd know that. I don't want to do anything at all that is anything at all like anything at all that the BNP want to do, and I never have. I've never demanded any such thing. I merely support the right of Welsh speakers to use their own native language in their own native land, and not to be told by anyone that it isn't acceptable to do so, and the democratic right of the people of Wales to decide through the democratic system that they want the native language of their country and Nation to exist under conditions by which it can no longer suffer so badly from the aftermath of former government policies (largely imposed from outside the country) that attempted (and failed) to stamp it out altogether. You're wild claims about any kind of support for not stamping out the Welsh language utterly being some kind of 'betrayal of the working classes' (comrade!) are a complete fabrication. Lack of tolerance for things that are 'different' is an ugly thing in all of its manifestations, and lack of tolerance for the right of the people of Wales to want to support 'their' language (through the democratic process), and the right of individuals to want to continue to use it in their daily lives in their own country even though it is 'different' from your beloved English tongue, is no less ugly than than racist bigotry of the BNP.
Ignoring nationalism is just rational Your one dimensionality in comment has been advertised numerous times. You pursue Welsh nationalist policy to the detriment of the Welsh peoples. Same ole! Now you're being 'less' than honest. The pursuit of the Welsh language has harmed the Welsh peoples. You haven't just supported that result, you've actively pursued it. And it does make me sick. The Welsh peoples have high poverty and people like you have maintained it.
SNP are a pretty racist, anti-English party. So, too, are Plaid Cymru. - - - Updated - - - What? English?
Except that they aren't - it isn't remotely true. A few people in England repeating such nonsense doesn't make it so. There are some xenophobic/racist morons in Wales and Scotland as there are everywhere else, but the secessionist parties certainly aren't just vehicles to represent such people, and such people are ignored by them as the morons that they are. Most of the xenophobic/racist morons are voting for the BNP and associated right wing groups anyway, and hanging around with the likes of the EDL and their off-shoots, not engaging with the kind of mainstream, tolerant and inclusive policies of the secessionist parties (and certainly not with a bunch of lefty socialist types like Plaid!). The fact that some people think that their countries, small though they may be, should be run according to the democratic will of the people of those countries has nothing whatsoever to do with xenophobia or hatred (indeed, they tend to believe that relations with the larger near neighbours will be much better without the potential ongoing suspicion and souring of relations caused by them having effective power over their smaller neighbours under the current constitutional settlement) - that seems a concept that some find difficult to understand, but it is still reality, whether those people recognise it or not, or like it or not. Some people in Scotland just think that Scotland (and her people) would be better running its own affairs entirely, rather than having them run from a remote capital outside their country, according to the will of people who don't even live in Scotland (and likewise for Wales). How is that 'racist' or 'Anti-English' exactly? It's a perfectly sound and reasonable application of 'localism' in democracy, nothing more. If they want to use English, they can use English - nobody is stopping them. English is a language that most of the people of Wales grow up with as their own language, and most of them use it as their language of daily life and work, and there's nothing at all wrong with that. Indeed, as an English speaker myself, I've never experienced any form of 'discrimination' or anything one the basis of not speaking Welsh - there are some jobs (not many, but some) where Welsh speaking is specified as 'essential' or 'desirable', but that's purely because they specifically involve dealing with Welsh speakers who want to speak Welsh (and there are still many people, especially in Western and rural parts of Wales, who do prefer to converse in their first language, because that is what they think in, and what they can best express themselves in). If they are Welsh speakers, they should be as free to use Welsh as English speakers are to use English, obviously. It is the language of the country, after all. There's nothing 'Anti-English' about that at all - Wales is a bilingual country, like many others in the world. Perhaps people who come from countries which aren't bilingual struggle with that concept for some reason, but it's really quite simple. The current leader of Plaid Cymru, by the way, is neither a native nor fluent speaker of the Welsh language - she converses in English.
I have never pursued or supported any policy that is in any way related to hatred, bigotry, xenophobia, racism (including anti-English racism), or any of the other things that characterise the 'nationalism' of the likes of the BNP. Try basing opinion and discussion on reading and understanding instead of ignoring, assuming and making false assertions. Again false assertions based on inaccurate assumption, only this time clearly revealing an element of something entirely different. I have never made any pronouncements against the English language at all, but the same obviously cannot be said for others who harbour their own bigotries against languages other than English. It seems like the long-held (and thankfully now abandoned) UK government policy of utterly stamping out the Welsh language 'for the good of the Welsh people', and making them all speak the Queen's English instead because it's 'so much more civilised', is still supported by some. Personally, I have no time for such nationalist, supremecist thinking, no matter where it comes from.
Well we don't really have that many nationalist factions in the UK. I mean there's the EDL which to me just seems like the everymans anger society. I've not actually encountered any BNP members but from I've seen and heard over the internet they seem to be getting a lot of aggression from people. But that being said I was actually appalled at the guests and audience during Nick Griffins question time appearance. In all honesty I'd say that the SNP are the most irritating.
Correct me if I am wrong, but what I can decipher by the stunningly limp-wristed posts here, is a fight as to who can be the most weak nationality? Which man is more willing to happily dilute his own culture? Which is more thrilled to invite the forth-world vagrants to take advantage of the tax theft and redistribution from native Brits to teat sucking parasites? Is this what the discussion is? "I'm a bigger doormat than you"? Help me out here, kids. I'm feeling a little lost.
You are indeed wrong, and I'm more than happy to explain why. A strong nation is one that is happy to celebrate its own identity without having to think itself either 'superior to', or 'under threat from', a minority of people joining it from somewhere else. A strong nation is one that is happy to accept that it will continue to evolve as a whole, as nations always have, by embracing new influences, and sees that as a positive thing for a free people - one that recognises that there is no need to abandon identity in the face of natural evolution, but that both things can be celebrated side by side and together without either having to threaten or oppress the other. A strong nation is a free and tolerant nation, where everyone is free to live their live and enjoy whatever aspects of whatever cultures they want to without interference or threat or bigotry from anyone else. A weak nation is one that fears anything that is 'new' or 'different', fears its own natural evolution, and fears any kind of change - xenophobia is the worst weakness that any nation or people can develop - it leads to irrationality, intolerance, and the consequent destruction of freedom. Without tolerance, there can be no freedom.
You have actively pursued policies which harm the Welsh peoples. There is no question in that, given the costs associated with forcing the adoption of the Welsh language.
