why ancient people Illyrians have chosen Islam?

that doesn't give him right to support terrorism and murder of hundreds.

if some American journalist wrote some after failed USA president assassination
he would end up in Guantanamo bay by the next day.

i know, Kusturica is very hated in Bosnia for getting back to his family roots, but that's his personal decisions and people getting crazy over that are just idiots.

 

Support murder of hundreds? who are we talking about and whose murder? of people on 'Anniversary' ? If he (some xyz journalist) would,doesn't mean that s/he should. He is not hated 'for getting back' -whatever that is supposed to mean, (since according to that logic people should move back to remnants of trees or live like cavemen) - but his support to a crime and once his statement is taken for serious-it obviously means that he's not the unique example of insanity (for supporting obviously,not - for turning to Serb-ism, after all:

-Bogic Bogicevic

So he might be Serb but not by his profession or vocation, and opinion is rather different than - actual support (artistic,monetary,etc).

 

only en idiot can hate an artist.... a real artist doest have nationality. how the bosniaks can hate the most famous in the world bosniak?

 

If this event happens then exactly for sure the EU will fall apart

 

He's Serb,i.e self proclaimed Serb

 

sometimes its very useful to leave own box for e minute a least ...if i were him i´d proclaim myself ....a Hedonistic God , so what ? would you hate me then? ... as i told you before, he is a great artist and no one Yugo even near him [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_6ICLIiD05o&feature=related"]Scene from Black Cat, White Cat - YouTube[/ame]

 

So do you like Cat Stewens ohh sorry Yusuf Islam?

Maybe he turned to his roots too...

Meanwhile i would prefer him to stay as Stewens i don't understand when people change name...

 

no i dont, he is too soft , i like this kind of music [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ONbM2ou94PA"]Rolling Stones - Paint It, Black [HD video / decent quality] - YouTube[/ame]

 

yes hundreds of people in Borik , how many do you think would die if 3 KG of plastic explosive , 4 hand grenades and 2 rifles were used like Nikolaidis was hoping ?

difference is that his ancestors like the most were forced to change religion, he didn't feel he was obligated to practice something his family was forced to by occupiers.

and what is a penalty for apostasy in Islam?

where did he say he support crime ? link pls

 

Not more failed than some states in that Union

 

If these 4 hand grenades and 2 rifles were supposed to explode they would explode. He's a terrorist for 'hoping' that something like that would happen. He obviously didn't mean it literally.

If they were forced to, so would rest of the population including yourself. If his family was forced to turn to Islam,they were not forced to practice it. Name doesn't require practice. Also, they were not forced to turn to Christianity?

That's between God and human, if you're implying on stoning and that sort of things-nah there is no penalty - approved by a Holly Book and Hadith.

He 'said' that i.e expressed that throughout his 'masterpiece' Underworld. After all, his claim that 'that the war in Bosnia was a 'civil war' in which the Bosnian army was attacking Serbs'- (without being 'critical' towards Serb paramilitaries and JNA for ca. 4 year long siege)-can clearly portrait his 'artistic' approach applauded by Milosevic and rest of the crew. Not to mention that in that same Sarajevo, there is a monument dedicated to 1000s of children killed by grenades and missiles shot by the same paramilitaries and JNA , among which there are Serbs children. After all same person asks where are thousands of Serbs from Sarajevo who stayed in war in the city- implying on their death and blaming Muslims for killing them. Those Serbs died the same way like other citizens did. By Serb paramilitaries shooting missiles 24/7.

 

You forgot 3 KG of plastic explosives that could destroy half of Borik.
Anyway, why assassination failed its for investigation to determinate, fact is weapon got inside Borik one day before celebration, maybe the ''terrorist'' just couldn't enter inside the next day? I didn't say Nikolaidis is a terrorist, but that he clearly supports this kind of actions against people with who he doesn't agree politically. IMO he doesn't have moral high ground to whine how others are so bad and how others support crime, when he is doing even worse.

No not me personally, my family had to move few times and to change family name to avoid that. Or today i would be a Boshniak i guess ..

like Kusturica said his family had to become Muslim to survive, not everyone could just pack their bags and move especially not poor families in Bosnia.
His father was atheist so they didn't practice it, you cant force someone to practice, but they were officially a Muslim family. Maybe next generation would be more religious and being from Muslim family ...what would they practice ?

So do people in Bosnia have different books? i dunno im not a expert but what does it mean if its said ''kill him''?

Movies are not reality ...i watched that move i never had feeling Muslims were the bad guys ........ do you think people living underground for 60 years with a monkey is supposed to be movie about real events? its a black comedy. For a movie as art to be politically correct it should have bunch of evil Serbs killing poor Muslims, really? and why movies need to be ''politically correct'' ?

i want to see where did he said ''i support war crimes'' and no i don't mean in fictional movies .

 

Weapon got into Borik, and no one knows who brought the weapon in. They don't know when was the weapon brought in and i'm sure that no one mentioned the possibility of weapon being brought one day before. Preparation for that event were held days before and if terrorist could enter day before he/she could enter that day as well.

I don't know,you tell me you're suggesting it. Is there something wrong if next generation is more religious,especially Muslim? There is something wrong in being Muslim here,or the way they became Muslim? Again, they obviously turned to Christianity at some point, so no one forced them? How is he sure and how are you sure that your family members were not forced to become Christian as well? Does it make now something wrong for belonging to your religion?

Apostasy laws are not derived from the Qur'an. Indeed medieval scholars did prescribe death punishment for some cases, however Qur'an the only relevant Guide of Muslims - doesn't state that anywhere. Between God and human,no one has right to intervene, especially not the other human.

Movie is not the reality,but movie is way for a filmmaker to express his views and opinion. Bunch of evil Serbs were killing Bosnians, that's a fact. Muslims were initial target community and that's also a fact,otherwise Muslims wouldn't have biggest number of dead civilians. Moral correct-person being raised in Sarajevo would never attend popular - miting of Serb radicals! politically correct thing is something that does not exist but from moral point of view,what does an artist have to do on political - mitinzi (i purposely state:mitinzi on b/h/s/m languages)?! If he doesn't support them, on what basis has he need to appear on mitinzi held by radicals???

 

looks like your not fallowing news often, all ex-YU papers wrote about this daily .


Oružje u „Borik“ sakrio nekadašnji pripadnik DB-a
http://www.pressrs.ba/sr/vesti/vest...„Borik“+sakrio+nekadašnji+pripadnik+DB-a.html

Oružje uneto u "Borik" dan pre proslave
http://www.blic.rs/Vesti/Hronika/304486/Oruzje-uneto-u-Borik-dan-pre-proslave

ok show me example how Christianity was forced to Balkan people, im sure i can find many examples about Islam. But im sure you already know how Ottomans ''encouraged'' people to become Muslim. i have nothing against conversion by free will, but that was not a case with Ottomans they were not bunch of nice guys with flowers in their hands .

you said ''no penalty - approved by a Holly Book and Hadith''

i showed you that you are wrong

OMG that's so not true, that's like basics knowledge of Islam, Islam 1.1

you are wrong again

sorry maybe your are not very religious to know this things.

There is not point to comment on something like this.

 

you said ''no penalty - approved by a Holly Book and Hadith''

i showed you that you are wrong



Again:

 

Thus according to the Qur`an the apostates are to be treated like other kuffar: If they want to live in peace with the Muslims, they are to be left in peace and if they assume a hostile attitude, then they are to be treated accordingly.[/QUOTE]

As for Hadith,Hadith refers to these verses obviously.

 

Posts are a bit interchanged, though order of the posts goes like this:
3,1 and than 2nd

 

The same way in which Islam was forced,

This describes spreading the Christianity on Balkans in the very beginning. Which doesn't describe that someone was weaving with the sword above their heads, but means that it was 'reinforced' throughout the benefits in terms of wealth and security since it was the state religion,i.e state ruled by a religion ie religious book. So was the Islam introduced to the population and eventually some did accept it and some didn't. After all, it is fact that all religious monuments including Churches were built during the Ottoman era at most and frankly speaking, Jewish community was welcomed to Balkans in Ottoman era, which was the only Empire that allowed them to live in it's territory after their expulsion from Europe in 1492. Also, after the schism RC Church and EO Church showed their 'mercy' towards Bosnian krstjani and Bosanska Crkva by condemning them on heresy and executing them wherever they got a chance. As for Islam, they accepted it almost entirely (i.e entire population) for the similarities between way they practice religion and way in which Muslims do, so when it comes to 'reinforcement' there is no argument that can fit any contra-argument to this fact.

 

islam is plagiarism from the Bible, Torah, and ancient myths and tales. The Christian hymns which is where the islamic jannah comes from, it copied every story about Jesus’ nativity and early years from various apocryphal nativity gospels, it copied a common Christian legend in surah Al-Kahf known as the 7 sleepers of Ephesus and the koran’s very denial of the crucifixion is taken from Gnostic docetism. These stories all predate Islam and were very popular amongst eastern Christians both heretical and orthodox. They even stole the prayer rituals from the Zoroastrians.

 

hey, you didn't post anything new here that i didn't read before.

1. There is no need to post huge amounts of text, and if you gonna post it anyway you should at least accredit text and provide link.

2. You missed the point, i don't want to discuss who is right, people who support death penalty or people that oppose it, because that could take forever, and this is not a place for that .

3. I only reacted on your 2 claims, First was : There is no penalty for Apostasy in Hadiths , and the Second was : Hadiths are not relevant guides for Muslims .


Anyone who knows about Islam little more than average would know those 2 claims are false.

4:80 of the Quran: "He who obeys the Messenger has obeyed Allah."

Bukhari (52:260) - "...The Prophet said, 'If somebody (a Muslim) discards his religion, kill him.' "

So there is a penalty for apostasy in Hadiths, and this cant be changed and cant be hidden, now if someone thinks that's not the right way to go that's different story.

This is not sections of the forum for long religious debates, now everyone reading this thread already forgot what OP asked in his post.

that why there is a http://www.politicalforum.com/religion/

There is many good threads there where people discuss about Islam.
I suggest you to open new thread there with your 2 points, i would like to see other people opinions. IMO they are wrong, but lest see what others think , Muslims or not, and pleas don't assume that if someone is not a Muslim he must be ignorant about Islam.

and BTW:

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7XRCYlZ4XOQ&feature=related"]islam penalty for apostasy - YouTube[/ame]



whole debate is here

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-S7M0KZTsU"]Richard Dawkins on the Big Debate 1 of 6 - YouTube[/ame]
(its not all about Apostasy, just provided not to be taken out of context)

 

I didn't say that Hadith is not relevant, but in terms of relevancy, Qur'an is 1st since. Hadith provides the further explanation, but as you could see it can be interpreted differently. The text as such provides the interpretation of verses that Prophet used to 'guide' on how to treat those who turn away from Islam. Shortly, those who show the hostility to Muslim community by attacking the Muslim community - can be killed since that is a self defense act however those who turn away from Islam and live peacefully with Muslims or act peacefully towards them are supposed to be treated friendly and any act of hostility towards them is not allowed.

There is no penalty for apostasy -_- Actually that's no penalty for apostasy Part of the verse you're talking about, is not against apostasy but self defense against hostility and attack which is something you would know if you were a bit deeper involved and if you didn't follow one view of one group of people who follow a one view of one person.

If you are trying to prove something without going into the deep, like in this case there is nothing to be proved actually It's something taken from the context vs something else taken from the context.

 

Please,..

The Balkan countries need to address this entire Gypsie-mess, instead of sending over here...

Some are living in late 1800's circumstances: no running water, no electricity,...

 

whats is then this? or maybe im not seeing well

''Indeed medieval scholars did prescribe death punishment for some cases, however Qur'an the only relevant Guide of Muslims - doesn't state that anywhere''
http://www.politicalforum.com/russi...rians-have-chosen-islam-4.html#post1060799500


if Quran is THE ONLY relevant guide for Muslims , what those that make Hadith ? .................also relevant ?

why just don't stop backpedaling and admit you were wrong. Jeez it's not such a big deal, you can get wrong sometimes too.

''The majority of Muslim scholars hold to the traditional view that apostasy is punishable by death or imprisonment until repentance, at least for adult men of sound mind ''
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostasy_in_Islam#cite_note-2

http://books.google.rs/books?id=H5-CdzqmuXsC&pg=PA10&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q&f=false

http://books.google.rs/books?id=6VeCWQfVNjkC&pg=PA22&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q&f=false

do you understand meaning of The majority ?

 

Hadith is also relevant,however Hadith represents some sort of prolonged Quranic verses, which again doesn't mean that Hadith is more relevant than Qur'an. In terms of relevancy, Qur'an is first.

I might have made misunderstanding about Hadith and Qur'an and vice versa but I am definitely not wrong when it comes to it's content and interpretation of the content.

if majority of schoalrs who published sometimes something hold an opinion of a Qur'anic verse does not mean that that opinion is valid and has to be taken 100% for real. there are scholars who don't after all.if you have read the text i posted over here, you would perhaps understand what I'm talking about. There is no specific punishment for apostasy in Qur'an. verses wikipedia and bunch of other pages are quoting are taken from the wrong context the way it is taken from Hadith as well, or better to say it has been manipulated which is not something impossible. if people are wanted to be held in chains nothing is impossible after all.