Why are Democrats expected to just cave on the debt ceiling?

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by StillBlue, May 22, 2023.

  1. StillBlue

    StillBlue Well-Known Member

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    Generally speaking, the only times the debt vote was anything besides straight up increasing it was if there were bills tacked on in a bipartisan fashion. For a bare majority in the House to hold the nation's financial health hostage to get their way is shameful.
    If they want to write laws then write laws based on merit and get their greedy little fingers out of the debt ceiling.
     
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  2. Kal'Stang

    Kal'Stang Well-Known Member

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    Ironic considering it is the Democrats who are always saying that the minority should not ever be able to hold up the majority. Now they are in the minority, and they're complaining about the majority. Ironic indeed.
     
    Last edited: May 22, 2023
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  3. StillBlue

    StillBlue Well-Known Member

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    So why are Republicans afraid to put these things in a separate bill? Why are they willing to commit blackmail hoping that future Democratic House majorities don't do the same to them? This is not how to govern.
     
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  4. Torus34

    Torus34 Well-Known Member

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    The Congress of the United States of America approved money to be spent through the budget process.

    As more money was approved to be spent than was expected to come in, money would have to be borrowed.

    The Democratic Party congressmen are willing to borrow that money without conditions attached.

    The Republican Party congressmen are net.

    And so it goes . . . [A tip-o'-the-Torus-hat to the late Mr. Kurt Vonnegut.]

    Regards, stay safe 'n well.
     
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  5. StillBlue

    StillBlue Well-Known Member

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    The Democrats would rather raise taxes than borrow money.
    The Republicans are insistent on raising debt and cutting taxes.
    Neither party willing to cut spending.
     
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  6. Kal'Stang

    Kal'Stang Well-Known Member

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    Past Democratic majorities HAVE done the same things. Don't even try and pretend otherwise.
     
  7. StillBlue

    StillBlue Well-Known Member

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    Show me one that wasn't bipartisan.
     
  8. Kal'Stang

    Kal'Stang Well-Known Member

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    Whether they were bi-partisan or not is irrelevant to whether or not they were clean bills. Or as you put it "If they want to write laws then write laws based on merit and get their greedy little fingers out of the debt ceiling." You're trying to move goalposts here. Talking about "blackmailing" in one instance and then the next talking about "bi-partisan". BOTH sides "blackmail" the other when it comes to raising the debt ceiling. Don't try and pretend otherwise.
     
  9. StillBlue

    StillBlue Well-Known Member

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    Show me one that wasn't bipartisan.
     
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  10. StillBlue

    StillBlue Well-Known Member

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    Do tell. Do you have any proof of that? Where the Democrats held the Republicans hostage? The last time this happened it was again Republicans trying and failing.
     
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  11. Kal'Stang

    Kal'Stang Well-Known Member

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    I'm sorry, I forgot. Republicans are always the evil ones and Democrats can never do anything wrong. :rolleyes:
     
  12. StillBlue

    StillBlue Well-Known Member

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    Generally true but on occasion Republicans do the right thing and the Democrats screw up.
     
  13. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    Actually what they are doing is more likely to prevent problems than increase them. It just isn't nearly enough. Unfettered spending by federal government will eventually do us all in.
     
  14. StillBlue

    StillBlue Well-Known Member

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    Then put the effort into a bipartisan spending bill and everyone is happy.
    Blackmail is not a positive way to proceed.
     
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  15. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    Attempting to control federal spending is not blackmail. It is critical. Too bad it doesn't work.
     
  16. StillBlue

    StillBlue Well-Known Member

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    I'm all for controlling federal spending but there is a place to do it with bipartisanship, in the budget. The deficit can be the place but when one party with zero input from the opposition tries to dictate then there's a problem.
     
  17. Zorro

    Zorro Well-Known Member

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  18. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    There is no budget.
     
  19. Zorro

    Zorro Well-Known Member

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    Actually, Dems are just expected to get their act together enough to pass a debt ceiling bill, any bill, any bill at all.

    Dems in Disarray: Flailing Biden Is Losing the Debt Ceiling Showdown

    'On Democrats' vanishing position of "no negotiations" on the debt ceiling
    - Regret they didn't try through reconciliation
    - Handwringing over Biden entering negotiations w McCarthy
    - Hair-splitting over whether they are even negotiating'

    They're a hot mess.

    Dems never even bothered to try to hike the debt limit after the election and before the GOP majority swept into power in the House. 'Six months later, Democrats are stuck doing exactly what they said they wouldn’t — negotiating on the debt ceiling with Republicans. Democrats are bemoaning what might have been. Many progressives are at a loss over how the party ended up here, having slowly reversed a stance that they wouldn’t haggle with the GOP over the debt limit, after deciding not to even attempt a party-line debt hike last year.'

    'Democrats’ “no negotiations” position on the debt ceiling vanished, replaced by a potential deal that could' trim 'at least some federal spending, against their' most extreme 'members’ wishes.' Confused 'Democrat leaders have tried to steady the ship with' helpless 'linguistic jiu jitsu, asserting that the budget negotiation is separate from the debt ceiling — which means the party has not backslid on its no-negotiations position. Senate Majority Leader Chuckles Schumer this week called the negotiations on the budget and raising the debt ceiling “separate but simultaneous.” It was a bit different than how he sounded in February: vowing that “we’re going to win this fight, and it’s going to be a clean debt ceiling.”'

    No conditions on a debt increase would be a dirty deal.

    Dems 'could have passed a giant debt ceiling increase when they controlled all the levers of power. They chose not to even try. Now they can't even quite agree if they're even negotiating over the debt limit at all, parsing it to death, and effectively twiddling their thumbs as the deadline approaches. Some on the Left have decided to embrace a cockamamie scheme under which Biden could just unilaterally raise the debt limit without Congress, muttering something about the 14th Amendment. This is ludicrous, of course, and unconstitutional. It's an even wilder idea than minting a trillion-dollar coin, or whatever madness that occasionally-floated "plan" entails. And this lunacy went from a fringe fascination to being endorsed by our supposedly 'norms-restoring' president in no time flat.' Charles Cooke unloads:

    Lyin' 'Biden says he believes he can use the 14th Amendment on the debt ceiling. At no point in his presidency—not once—has he stood up and said No to the progressives in his party who, on the basis of obvious and risible lies, have demanded he violate his oath.'

    It wouldn't be the first time this bribed divisive liar violated his oath of office.

    Now Bribed Biden is claiming that we just need to raise taxes more: '"As a share of GDP, federal tax collections are at a multi-decade high of about 19.6 percent..." It's not a revenue problem. It's a spending problem. Also, the US national debt has *doubled* since the last big debt limit battle in 2011.'

    [​IMG]

    'Tax receipts are far above historical norms, as a percentage of GDP, but outlays have exploded to abnormal highs. According to the CBO, government outlays totaled 25.1 percent of GDP in 2022 compared to the pre-COVID norm of 20.1 percent." That's the problem. House Republicans' bill barely makes a dent in the scheme of things, but at least it's a small dent. Democrats' stance is full speed ahead on higher spending, forever, regardless of the math. The American people are not in favor of that approach, but they are in favor of central components of the GOP-passed alternative. Meanwhile, the president keeps lying about having cut the national debt, which is so dishonest that even liberal 'fact-checkers' have felt compelled to repeatedly correct the record.'

    Bribed Biden lies a LOT.

    'the House-passed plan remains the only bill in town.'

    'National debt and deficits are very large. Interest rates have risen sharply from the "effectively zero" level of the teens. Debt service costs will likely soon exceed military spending. We're chewing through fiscal capacity like pac-man on an adderall binge.'

    'But everyone still talks about economic policy like there's a lot of room for their pet projects, while in Washington, actual politicians charged with delivering those projects resort to pay-fors that are either impractical fantasies (tax unrealized capital gains!) or [crickets]'
     
  20. Doofenshmirtz

    Doofenshmirtz Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    This is nothing more than a show so that Dems and Reps will fight among each other. In the end, they will come up with something very expensive (They will call it bipartisan) and go right back to spending our money like thieves with stolen credit cards.
     
  21. Zorro

    Zorro Well-Known Member

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  22. Chrizton

    Chrizton Well-Known Member

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    The Speaker is the weakest we have had in eons. He has no room to negotiate unless Biden can come up with something that will get him enough votes to be able to marginalize the zealots who dictated what was passed already. Biden isn't going to budge on student loans. I think a series of short extensions is all we are going to see between now and next year.
     
  23. Independent4ever

    Independent4ever Well-Known Member

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    There will not be any short term extensions

    Either Biden gives the Freedom Caucus a high % of their demands or there will be a default.
     
  24. Chrizton

    Chrizton Well-Known Member

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    Then there will be a default and the GOP will be forced into short term extensions.
     
  25. StillBlue

    StillBlue Well-Known Member

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    It's happened before. The next time they took it to the brink and backed off because it would have made them look even worse than the time before. They'll back off again with little or nothing and blame the president.
    Sadly, Reagan taught the party to act like a politician is more important than being one. Over and over they pull useless stunts to pretend that they are working. Over and over they pass laws that they know will get tossed in court. I wish they'd cut down on the acting and work a.little more.
     
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