Why are LIBERALS soft on crime?

Do you think that in Western Europe governments kill thousands if not millions of people secretly? Thousands may die in some war-torn African states but unless you are suggesting that America ain't all bad because you have less prisoners and executions than a third world country in the grip of civil war you have a problem.

1 People's Republic of China People's Republic of China Officially not released.[48][49] At least 1700 (estimated), may be as many as 10,000 per year.[50]
2 Iran Iran At least 388
3 Iraq Iraq At least 120
4 Saudi Arabia Saudi Arabia At least 69
5 United States United States 52
6 Yemen Yemen At least 30
7 Sudan Sudan At least 9
8 Vietnam Vietnam At least 9
9 Syria Syria At least 8
10 Japan Japan 7
11 Egypt Egypt At least 5
12 Libya Libya At least 4
13 Bangladesh Bangladesh 3
14 Thailand Thailand 2
15 Singapore Singapore At least 1
16 Botswana Botswana 1
17 Malaysia Malaysia Unreleased
18 North Korea North Korea Unreleased

Here are the figures on wiki for capital punishment. Most are hard to judge and the 'at leasts' are probably much higher. The biggest killer is China which is to be expected from a country with a large population and with a repressive regime. The only other first world country on the list is Japan with 7 (fairly high for Japan). The list is fairly inconclusive but it doesn't suggest 1000's of executions except in the case of China.

Despite all this pretty much all western countries have outlawed capital punishment. So the question is are you going to compare the U.S. penal system to say Botswana or the U.K.?

 

Scientific truth does not work on estimates. Scientific truth does not put anything on such a line that it can "prove" anything. Scientific truth only "shows" something. If you don't know the difference, then get a (*)(*)(*)(*)ing education.

 

Apparently, you have gotten so used to it that you no longer even recognize that you're hanging.

America may lock up more criminals, and for longer terms; however, its prisons are five star hotels compared to prisons in a great many nations.

BTW: I have not suggested that America is too soft on inmates. I do not advocate harsh treatment of inmates, nor do I believe such treatment advances the mission to rehabilitate.

However, I do advocate a battery of assessments for each individual inmate upon entry to a correctional facility, cognitive behavioral modification programs, decent living conditions, job training, conjugal visits, and job placement upon release.

 

Would you please try to discuss this seriously?

American prisons are too soft compared with which other nations? Sod "a great many", talk facts.

Do the countries with even harsher prisons have lower crime rates, and better rehabilitation? Do the countries where prisons are less harsh (this would be, all NATO allies, all other "Western" countries, all your OECD peers) have higher crime rates and higher rates of reoffending?

That's a no all around, isn't it?

 

the problem doesnt lie within political ideologies. It's not liberals are too "soft" and the solution isn't a conservitave "hard nosed approach". The problem is that the american justice system has become a joke, an anomaly. An ingima neither party likes to address and even less ambitious to solve.
The point of our system was to get away from the brutal crime and punishment system of western europe at the time ( which revolved around brutal executions in front of a morbidly ammused crowd). It was designed to both punish and reform those members of society that break away or go against the societal norms that govern the governed. However intial attempts were less then productive as they resembled the drab, depressing, menteally taxing environment of 1984.
the original creaters of our system realized this and mad modifications as needed. In order to reform those incarserated, the prison had to resmebble conditions found on the outside world as closely as possible. Thus modifications like the open court in which prisoners could socialize, play sports, exericise were incorporated, also public cafeterrias, libraries and other institiutions that allowed the prisoner to learn or re-learn how to interact with the general public were introduced to the prison system. These reforms workd and but over time the reasons for why these reforms were made were either forgotten or ignored and the system slowly degnerated into the counter productive amorpus blob it is today. Devoid of any refrom attempts and overly emphasing the punishing purpose of prisons.
Now a small time offender can go into prison, and due to the need for "respect" in prison is either forced to join a gang, becomes someones "GF" or both. It doenst reform prisioners but turns individuals that could be reformed into hardened gangsters destined to return, over and over and over again.

The current status of our prison shouldent be degrated or reduced down to a "liberals are soft" and "conservaties are stubburn" issue. It is something that both parites need to come together in order to fix, or bring in a private institution that can fix it for them.

 

Russia, China, India, Mexico, Brazil, the U.K and Commonwealth nations, France, Germany, Italy, Spain, Portugal, Japan, etc., etc., all have prisons which are much harsher than many American prisons.

Apparently, you are completely ignorant of just how comfortable some American prisons can be, especially the minimum security prisons.

The thing for you to do, Red, is lose the snooty British attitude and start reading. This way, you won't be so inclined to make an utter fool of yourself.

 

You have a link?

Link?

What should we read?

 

There's much to be said for that. After all, isn't there a good "fiscal conservative" case for sentencing as few people as possible to the shortest terms of imprisonment possible? If there were a scheme in, let's stick with Sweden, which allowed central government to train fewer firefighters, more quickly, then conservatives would be crawling all over it.

The last, left-of-centre administration over here presided over a huge expansion of the prison system, pushing Britain's incarceration rate up to the highest in the EU. The incoming conservative administration has already begun to take steps to cut the number and the lengths of sentences.

I fear that they have been able to do this because the gutter press find it harder to fill a slow news day with fake outrage over supposed right-wing softness towards criminals. A right-wing government takes hard-headed, common-sense decisions (according to the script).

 

Thanks in advance for enlightening me.

When you're ready?

 

You want my best guess at that? If you want to learn about the luxury accommodation enjoyed by American prisoners, you should read cheap, right-wing American tabloids. Exclusively.

If you want to learn about the luxury accommodation enjoyed by Russian prisoners, you should read cheap, right-wing Russian tabloids. Exclusively.

If you want to learn about the luxury accommodation enjoyed by Indian prisoners, you should read cheap, right-wing Indian tabloids. Exclusively.

And the same applies for Mexico, Brazil, the U.K and Commonwealth nations, France, Germany, Italy, Spain, Portugal, Japan...

Where the heck you learn about the luxurious condditions in Chinese prisons, I cannot imagine.

 

I fear that you will never be enlightenend, Red.

In the same way that some criminals are behaviorally incorrigible, some doochebags are intellectually incorrigible.

 

So basically bs.

 

You've got nothing, have you?

 

The crime rate in Mass is only a little above the US average. Why isn't it the worst? Here are the worst:

 

Quotes go all over the place when people start replying to you.

You have to learn to use the "end-quote" notation in your own posts.

"[/QUOTE]"

 

None of these arguments really change the fact that Western Europe is by your standards more 'liberal' (social liberal) than America by quite a long shot (our right wing parties are the equivalent of the Democrats) and yet Western Europe has lower prison populations and recidivism. So I don't see how 'liberals' are the cause of the problem.

 

Well it's been proven that being tougher on crime doesn't reduce crime rates and focusing on rehabilitation rather than punishment lowers crime rates so maybe that's why? (want proof?, look at crime rates in the south compared to the more liberal north).