Why do Americans value the ability to own a gun so much?

No, it does not.

America has been attacked many times by people who thought we were weak.

It only fails to people who are against an adult's right to choose, against freedom and liberty, and against the constitution.

stop demanding that America be like you and let us be.

 

Simply put, you and your family are more likely to be injured by that gun than protected by it.

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They've figured it out.

 

You carrying your popgun Glock has nothing to do with America's military defending itself.

Tell me about those tyrannical Canadian, Australian and Japanese governments.

 

Because we're talking about real world applications. If you want to play fantasy land go to fetlife.

This is what you said. Give them better educational opportunities, make it so getting a weapon is harder to do, provide them with jobs or something that pays better then crime.

Who are "them"? What educational opportunities are you going to give them that are not already in existence (public school, scholarships for minorities and the poor, whole universities that give special attention to minorities I know I go to one, various organizations made to help, affirmative action, student loans subsidized by the government, grants. Etc.)?

What laws are you going to put in place specifically? What strictures? What rules are you going to craft? Huh?
Who will provide whom with jobs? Or something? Maybe we should just pay protection money or something? Real nice city you got there it'd be a shame if someone decided to burn it down. Maybe you leave 50k in a bag outside and that doesn't happen?

 

Dude I just Crack my AK and run a rag and a rod with a little gun oil on it. Don't have to full disassemble don't have to lay it out and scrub etc. I'm lazy what can I say? Lol
Plus I'm a law student. I've got zero fundulation and I've already got the AK. All I've gotta buy is bullets which is expensive enough.

My next gun is going to be a full size carry pistol now that TX has open carry. I was thinking a nice .357 magnum. I like wheel guns don't judge me

 

Value owning guns? I never thought of it in that light, as a value. I own the guns I have because I wanted them, some are keepsakes from my Grandpa, others for different uses. Going back through history I know my Great Grandpa had some guns, my grandpa, my dad and me. my son has guns and works weekends gun shows and I have a grandson who owns some guns.

I guess it is a family thing that I never paid any attention to. It just seemed natural like owning a hammer and saw. Fact is I think everyone of my neighbors who live close by all have guns.

I don't think I know no body that don't.

 

I'll be in my bunk.

That's a great piece of land you've got there too.
Is that AK chinese? Cause mine looks just like it same grain on the stock

 

I've mostly been in the city, but my dad moved to Indiana for a while and I got to visit him during the summers. That's where I really got to be a kid. I'd ride my bike everywhere, shoot cans with the bb gun, go fishing in the creek, etc. Got back to the city and it's just drinking and drugs, the drinking stuck (Army didn't help with that) but yeah, it's kinda go to work, go home, repeat. The motorcycle helps, but no real action and nothing to do for the most part. Well anyway, few towns not far out where I could get a large plot if the price isn't too high. I bought at the right time and the house is already about 60k more than what I got it for. Sink a bit of cash in and I could get even more. May be worth a look here in a few years. I'm a software engineer though, so I need to be able to work downtown. If the motorcycle keeps staying fun though I could handle a longer commute.

 

No evidence whatever that gun control equals crime control. In fact the opposite is true. When you limit the ability of law abiding citizens to defend themselves crime goes up. The result of limiting gun ownership in virtually every country in the world that has made the attempt has been a barely noticeable drop in the murder rate but a large, usually double digit increase in assaults, rape, and home invasion crimes.

 

this original poster hasn't even bothered to come back. He's a troll...........so sayeth stjames

 

Anarchy means no government, and depending on which Anarchist you talk to, there will still be authority. For me, I believe that we should still have authority, it just shouldn't come from the government. So there would still be cops, fire departments because people see a need for their services, but they wouldn't be a government entity, they would just be regular people doing something they like to do.

 

The idea of freedom is a theory. Does that not have real world implications? Is a blueprint for a house but a theory for how a house should be built? Does a homeowner want a house that was built with a blueprint in mind or without one? Theories are not some trash to disrespect, they are just as important as any real world fact.

Them, is would be criminals. Educational opportunities would be increasing funding for vocational schools (which the Federal government cut funding to) or for colleges (which states have cut funding to). Affirmative Action programs (which have been cut) would be nice as well if it targets an audience more likely to commit crimes. Student loans would be nice if they didn't cost more then a mortgage. But specifics aren't what I'm arguing for. Simply the theory should do.

So I'm not here to argue specifics, mostly because that's way off topic. I'm simply arguing the theory. One or two examples should be fine enough to prove my point without derailing the thread. The examples I already gave and shouldn't be too hard to figure out why they would lower costs.

 

With me it's not so much that I value the ability to own a gun as it is that I do not trust my fellow man with absolute control over my life. Make me free or not. But don't "not" and tell me I am free only in the sense that I am free to like it or not. For if you do then you're the kind needing killing. Hence the gun in my hand. Comprende?

 

"Mr DiIulio later recanted and it is clear that the pessimists were wrong. Even as he wrote, America’s crime wave was breaking. Its cities have become vastly safer, and the rest of the developed world has followed. From Japan to Estonia, property and people are now safer than at almost any time since the 1970s (see article). Confounding expectations, the recession has not interrupted the downward trend. Even as America furiously debates the shooting of Trayvon Martin (see article), new data show that the homicide rate for young Americans is at a 30-year low."
http://www.economist.com/news/leade...-down-governments-should-focus-prevention-not

"Both police records (which underestimate some types of crime) and surveys of victims (which should not, but are not as regularly available a source of data) show crime against the person and against property falling over the past ten years in most rich countries. In America the fall began around 1991; in Britain it began around 1995, though the murder rate followed only in the mid-2000s. In France, property crime rose until 2001—but it has fallen by a third since. Some crimes are all but disappearing. In 1997, some 400,000 cars were reported stolen in England and Wales: in 2012, just 86,000."
http://www.economist.com/news/brief...rime-even-face-high-unemployment-and-economic

 

Who said most people can't afford a boat? I don't see why that would be the case.

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Ok and?

Right.

 

Source ??

 

Funny you didn't say N korea, Cuba, or Venezuela.

I wonder why. Might not align with you're agenda?

So soon we forget about all the complacent countries that have fallen victim to tyranny.

 

Purchasing records exist. They don't have to be restricted, just bought in eyebrow raising amounts.

Assume everyone is selfish. Why would a Cashier risk losing their job for a couple of dollars?

Purchasing records, it's going to be eyebrow raising even then.

Why would that person stop at one or two guns?

Says the person who just tried to make 4 reasons why he could get away with buying materials to make guns and bombs. And what would then happen then? Escalation of force usually means a body is going to drop to the floor. So in the end, someone is going to die which in turn will fuel more crime. Remember, that criminal was there for a reason. That reason did not go away necessarily if he is shot and killed.

"Some crimes have all but died out. Last year there were just 69 armed robberies of banks, building societies and post offices in England and Wales, compared with 500 a year in the 1990s"
http://www.economist.com/news/leade...-down-governments-should-focus-prevention-not

Why did he decide to rape her in the first place? What if the government put in place some sort of policy that would address that reason? Wouldn't that have prevented it just as well?

Thank you for proving my next point, which is:

Positive Liberalism vs. Classical Liberalism. Remember what this thread is about not what it has turned into. This is not about pro-gun and anti-gun, this is about why Americans are so gun-ho. By arguing that Americans have a weak Positive Liberal tradition, then it explains why Americans have a hard time dealing with the government as well.

How would you know your target is unarmed and defenseless by looking at them? This video illustrates a very important idea: [video=youtube;zepAp5qQiDw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zepAp5qQiDw[/video]

You can't tell anything about anyone just by looking at them. So don't assume they're defenseless.

 

I wonder how far the American revolution would have gone without an armed populace.

 

ooh ooh...can we add China to that list?

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next door to their neighbors house......

 

Yes freedom is a theory, one which I can illustrate to you in practical terms in the real world just as well as I can discuss in nebulous theory terms.
We have discussed the blueprint, in depth. Now is time to build the damn structure. I can't live in that piece of paper. So fine the walls should be X length and width and made from Y material. Now how do the parts fit together? Who is going to do the labor? How are they going to get paid?

And who are these would be criminals? How do we pick them out? Is there a blood test or something?
Finally, (*)(*)(*)(*). Increased funding to vocational schools: I'm on board. To add to that idea: have high schools offer a pre college program and a pre vocational program. Tell kids its ok to become a motorcycle mechanic or work on big rigs or trains etc.
We've still the prickly problem of how and where we're going to get the funding from.
AA targets ethnic minorities mostly who are more likely to be poor and living in a high pop density area and therefore are more likely to commit crimes (statistically speaking). Does that satisfy?
Better idea: Student loans only for certain degrees. No loans for a women's study degree (because its not marketable). Loans on a STEM degree, or vocational school. Should encourage people to go to vocational school.

Specifics are what you argue when you talk policy. We're talking policy here. Theory is nice but its only half the equation. 50% is a failing grade.

Thread has been derailed for awhile now. It doesn't seem like anyone minds. Certainly haven't seen the OP even one time.
You've actually neglected to show how any costs would be lowered because you've only spoken in vague generalities so far. We're just now getting into ANY meat at all. The meat is how you show that costs can be lowered. Show me how you'd do it and we'll see if you're fixing anything.

 

About as far as it takes to walk to a firing squad

 

What makes you think you know anything about me and/or my family? ....I know how to shoot a gun as well as keeping it safe and secured!! ....so again I ask how you would know such a thing to make a stupid bold statement as you did? ....or is "your's" simply a "scared" lib statement!!!!

 

If guns were illegal, then there's going to be people out there who illegally obtain them and use them for theft, rape, robbery, while I or any other person would not be able to defend myself, it's not like the police are going to be your perfect guardian angel 24/7. Just look at Chicago, some of the strictest gun laws in the country but still one of the highest murder rates. America isn't Canada, the UK, France...it really ticks me off to hear people say, "oh why can't be like europe?" America will always be more attached to conservative values such as the right to own a gun than some other countries, about time people accept that.