Why do pro EU people find the UK's independence so offensive?

Exactly, that's the point. Nobody needs your money. All you've been giving money to have had enough of it. Instead give them some tougher laws that will not vacuum clean your money. They will thank you for it later.

Besides, turn on all yoir brain and ask yourself whether in a political union you 'fix somebody's problems' like you fix Wales's... You don't fix Wales problems, you fix your and theirs at once (or at least that's the idea).

 

If the EU does not need our money and the member states it gives it to don't want it, why are our contributions to the EU budget going up in response to the demands of the European Commission and the European parliament?

The EU's answer is always 'more integration'. If this is the answer to anything, please use your brain to find some evidence.

 

The same plan as stated in the declaration made by the Treaty of Paris signatories after the setting up of the original European Coal and Steel Community.which included in its form of words By the signature of this Treaty, the participating Parties give proof of their determination to create the first supranational institution and that thus they are laying the true foundation of an organised Europe. This Europe remains open to all European countries that have freedom of choice. We profoundly hope that other countries will join us in our common endeavour

The Treaty of Paris was the start.and Gawd knows how it will all finish!

http://europa.eu/legislation_summaries/institutional_affairs/treaties/treaties_ecsc_en.htm

 

I don't give a flying (*)(*)(*)(*). Get the (*)(*)(*)(*) out!

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Yea right. Just like you said some year ago that the Euro was dead. Silly Leffe.

 

I have NEVER said that Paris; please don't continue the national trend of acting a prick.

 

You said it was screwed, when obviously it's not. And spare us your nationalist bullcrap.

 

How does the EU give you anything? And for crying out loud, how are you bullied? We have one person, one vote. We live by the will of a democratically elected, if flawed, government and Wales has its own assembly, which is more than England can boast.

 

And from that you pull out the lie that i said it was dead.

Go away you arrogant ####. Thank god the rest of the French aren't like you... they seem quite nice.

 

No, you go away, and take your (*)(*)(*)(*)ing country with you.

 

I only wish it were that simple. Perhaps the EU could do kick us out instead and the sooner the better?

 

The same "(*)(*)(*)(*)ing country" which liberated you from the Nazi's 70 years ago?

Give it a rest and do not confuse me with the people who want out of the EU, get na grip of yourself and act like an adult, if possible of course.

 

People who want out of the EU like me, you mean? Paris rarely replies to anything I have said. And where does that leave you with your criticisms of the EU? Why hasn't the left got a credible opposition to the EU? RMT leader Bob Crow is great on the subject, but where are the rest? Why don't they make life uncomfortable for Labour leaders?

 

Not specifically you Tamara, but Paris is jumping to huge assumptions as to my stance on the EU.

Also, you seem to understand I'm "Labour", I'm not, I don't even live in the UK, I live in mainland Europe. I see the benefits of the union and I've benefitted from the free movement of people.

As I've said over and over (see my new thread on the end point of integration), I just want the EU to open, honest and transparent on what it's end point is. It is not and has never been open and honest about this as far as I'm concerned.

We are sleep walking atm and I don't like it.

 

Do you vote in British elections? The electorate is sleeping walking, and the EU (along with far too many British politicians) has not been open or honest. I agree.

 

No longer, I'm not really on board with permenantly living abroad and voting in domestic elections.

This debate to me is not about the UK, it's about where I live also.

 

Fair enough. The debate is very much about the UK, where I live, for me. I see the EU as being fundamentally against the interests of people, especially working people.

 

In what way? The EU provides a single market, which many people make good use of. It allows people to easily move to and work in other countries (and I know huge amounts of professional people who do so). It provided the 40 hour working week, and I don't neccessarily agree it's EU business, it is a good thing; regardless of what UK business leaders say.

The EU is a double edged sword, some good, some bad. But Tamora, there is a whole bunch of lies about the EU which are circulated in the British press. From bananas to the EU satopping nurses lifting patients. Much of the time the domestic government was the problem, but the Mail and Sun simply saw a way to enrage people and sell papers.

Take Health and Safety for example. The press would have you believe that the EU cause OTT regulation, but the reality is that they do not. The UK and Ireland have very strong health and safety standards which you simply do not see in other Northern European countries. But it sells papers to lie about it.

 

Over zealous health and safety rules are not an issue for me; I don’t think I have ever commented on them. Red tape though is a huge problem for small businesses. Yes, UK bureaucrats like to goldplate it, but that is the British way, so long have we been doing it. We do not seem to be suited to European business practises. The EU is about so much more than the single market and there have been two more treaties since the single market was formed, each giving the EU more power.

I haven’t based anything I have said on what I have seen written in the media, so please don’t mix me up with someone who has. The media isn’t interested in aiding anyone’s understanding of what is at stake. (The print media focuses on the eurosceptic trivia, as the broadcast media focuses on the europhile trivia. Neither get to the real issues properly. We now have the Conservatives climbing in the polls, without having had to offer anything but what must be the world’s largest post-dated cheque! Looking at Cameron’s and the wider establishment’s form, I am not hopeful that we’ll ever get a referendum, or if we do, that it won’t be as flawed as the last one in ’75. Eurosceptics certainly have a mountain to climb but people should have the referendum at least. Most people were too young to vote then and the situation has changed beyond all recognition since.

Mass immigration is just one thing I am against. Allowing such large numbers of low or unskilled workers into the country pushes down the wages of those low or unskilled workers already here. It pushes them into the benefits system, which in turn pushes taxation up, together with all the costs that go with having large numbers of poor immigrants. It puts pressure on already inadequate UK housing stock in an already densely populated country. No one is saying that people cannot live and work in other countries as happened before free movement came about, though of course I accept the EU has made it easier albeit at the expense of the majority who don’t want to move. It might have been ok if standards of living had been equal across the free movement area, but they are not. I’d prefer a sensible points system to control immigration instead.

Single market legislation pushes the privatisation agenda, pushing costs up for consumers. The poor pay a greater proportion of their wages to for basic utilities to privatised companies. Even if a member state wants to it cannot nationalise its industries. That should be a matter for democratically elected government, as with anything which affects the domestic policies of the UK.

Then there’s the evolving EU justice system. It simply does not give the accused the protections under the law that have been such a part of British justice. Given that the EU is not a democracy, this is a huge worry.

 

Yea that same (*)(*)(*)(*)ing country, and make it as far away as possible so I don't have to hear your whiny arse no more.

 

Because there is nothing to add for me. You want out and it's fine with me.

 

Jesus christ. Do you know how old you look to everyone? You know exactly how bad you look right now? You don't care, I get that, but I'm still inclined to tell you.

I've not seen or heard anyone react like this since I was at Infant School... WTF is it with you? I mean, you're old enough to use a computer, but not old enough to have a grown up conversation. I pitty you I really do.

 

Who cares? Just get the (*)(*)(*)(*) out!

 

Immature child.

 

Thank you. You want to stay in and it's fine with me.