Why do you believe in God ?

Right and then they deal with the consequences

 

Another one who can’t differentiate between a POTENTIAL child and an actual child.

 

You sound like the sort of humanitarian who cannot differentiate between a POTENTIAL plantation worker and a real plantation worker.

 

..that’s a non sequitor
Makes no sense

 

So you do not actually make an argument here. The first paragraph makes no sense "doesn't take into account protections for the mother built into law" .. what are you talking about ? The whole point is in relation to protection of the mother

The rest of your argument is based on an appeal to authority fallacy. Just because something is law .. does not mean that this law is just. Bad men make bad laws .. and there are plenty of bad laws on the books.


Not the "slavery/abortion" conflation again. There is no "self defense" argument on the part of a slave owner. The life of the slave owner is not directly endangered by a law forbidding slavery.

Your last sentence is false. Abortion in the latter stages of pregnancy is illegal in many states thus .. the fetus is protected and not the woman.

 

Of course since you couldn't address the actual issue you segue off into "THE NUMBERS COUNT , THE NUMBERS COUNT...NOT THE WOMEN, THE NUMBERS!"""

YOU don't seem to mind, YOU said it's only 14 per 100,000, as if that small of number means their lives didn't matter...

I didn't lie about anything....IF abortion were to be banned (some)women would be forced to bear children...

Completely irrelevant to my statement:

""Consent to one act (having sex) is NOT consent to any other act (becoming pregnant).

NO woman can "consent" to getting pregnant, she either will or won't.""""


Since you were incapable of refuting one word of my statement you made a totally irrelevant comment.

DUH, even if a woman wanted to get pregnant consenting to it does NOT get her pregnant...

YES, consent may be withdrawn at anytime......

Another irrelevant statement.....no one is whining.......I made a statement you can't refute, that's all....



OH YA, you NEVER could answer the oft asked question: Why do you want women to have less rights than you have?


Why do you want exceptions for abortion in the case of rape?

 

You sound like you don't know the difference between born and unborn.

 

You blatantly lied. You made a claim that was not even remotely true. And then when I call you on it, you "yell" at me, get all indignant and start to attack me.
You are on permanent ignore and aside from the improvement of not having to deal with a very difficult person, I'll never miss
the difference your not being here makes.














...

 

Soooo predictable......
No facts or coherent argument so has to put other poster on "ignore"......











...

 

Nor do you.
Not one worth repeating anyway.

What are you talking about?
The notion of self defense in a pro choice argument does not take into account that in a situation where the welfare of the mother or child must be weighed against each other the mother's welfare always takes precedence.

Show me where I said laws are all great no matter what they say and do. I missed that part.

Yes. The other great moral failing of America that fails to protect the lives of innocent people.

Right. So what? Who said otherwise? I said slaves and in vitro children are "people not considered human" by the law.
That would be a slave (not considered a full human being) and the unborn (not considered a person until after actual birth, by many
fans of infanticide). Not real discerning, are you.

Please show me those states. I can't find a single state that bans abortions outright in latter stages. I'll bet you can't either. Here....let me help. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_in_the_United_States_by_state

Don't be like the guy who says America has one of the worst records in the world for maternal deaths and it actually has one of the best.

 

NPR and ProPublica teamed up for a six-month long investigation on maternal mortality in the U.S. Among our key findings:

• More American women are dying of pregnancy-related complications than any other developed country. Only in the U.S. has the rate of women who die been rising.
• There's a hodgepodge of hospital protocols for dealing with potentially fatal complications, allowing for treatable complications to become lethal.
• Hospitals — including those with intensive care units for newborns — can be woefully unprepared for a maternal emergency.
• Federal and state funding show only 6 percent of block grants for "maternal and child health" actually go to the health of mothers.
• In the U.S, some doctors entering the growing specialty of maternal-fetal medicine were able to complete that training without ever spending time in a labor-delivery unit.

Maternal Mortality Is Rising in the U.S. As It Declines Elsewhere
Deaths per 100,000 live births


Notes
"Global, regional, and national levels of maternal mortality, 1990–2015: a systematic analysis for the Global Burden of Disease Study 2015," The Lancet. Only data for 1990, 2000 and 2015 was made available in the journal.
Source: The Lancet

Credit: Rob Weychert/ProPublica

 

Here's the first post that mentioned 17....

 

No need to get pissy.

I did make an argument. The argument is that because there is a risk of death by continuing a pregnancy - this constitutes a strong argument that woman should not be forced by law to continue that pregnancy. You have not refuted this argument.

There are many states that ban abortion after a certain number of weeks.

.https://www.guttmacher.org/state-policy/explore/state-policies-later-abortions

 

Where one organism depends on the other for survival there must be more than just a generalized risk to justify terminating a dependent life.
Absent a real medical need to end a pregnancy you present no real argument at all for abortion. Only a preference made by fans of abortion.

Okay...."after a certain number of weeks" .
That is quite a different thing than claiming that even in cases where the life of the mother is threatened, abortion remains illegal
which is absurd.

 

I never claimed that abortion remains illegal when the life of the mother is threatened. You are failing to distinguish between a major life threatening situation and one that carries a less significant risk.

The argument being put forward is that even in the case of this less significant risk - (the 17 out of 100,000 chance of death and what ever the odds of risk of other harm is) - that the self defense argument has merit.

This argument is 1) absent what you refer to as "real medical need" and 2) a valid argument and 3) and argument that you have failed to address with anything other than fallacy and silliness such as "only a preference made by fans of abortion"

The question at hand is "What right does the state have to compel a woman to engage in an activity that presents a significant risk of harm or death"

 

That's how I interpreted your sentence. It did surprise me when I read it.

I don't know how many ways I can put it:
The potential is there for significant risk when giving birth but only in the abstract and anyone wanting to be rid of that potential threat can get an abortion at an early stage which presents a heath risk to the woman which is nearly zero (if not zero).
There is no self defense argument that makes any sense at all, at least in this country. The key is acting very early in the pregnancy.

An abortion, as said, at an early stage of pregnancy presents no significant risk of harm at all.
Isn't that what pro choice people want? Legal safe abortions? However anyone who waits does so at her own legal and health's peril.

 

Do you honestly think fetus just floats unattached inside the woman for nine months for NO REASON!!!!!???!!!


Get thee a biology book.....

A woman's body changes from the moment of conception in many different ways and the fetus is ATTACHED and USING her body.


A PARTIAL list of the effects of pregnancy on women :

Normal, frequent or expectable temporary side effects of pregnancy:

• exhaustion (weariness common from first weeks)
• altered appetite and senses of taste and smell
• nausea and vomiting (50% of women, first trimester)
• heartburn and indigestion
• constipation
• weight gain
• dizziness and light-headedness
• bloating, swelling, fluid retention
• hemmorhoids
• abdominal cramps
• yeast infections
• congested, bloody nose
• acne and mild skin disorders
• skin discoloration (chloasma, face and abdomen)
• mild to severe backache and strain
• increased headaches
• difficulty sleeping, and discomfort while sleeping
• increased urination and incontinence
• bleeding gums
• pica
• breast pain and discharge
• swelling of joints, leg cramps, joint paininfection including from serious and potentially fatal disease
  (pregnant women are immune suppressed compared with non-pregnant women, and are more susceptible to fungal and certain other diseases)
• extreme pain on delivery
• hormonal mood changes, including normal post-partum depression
• continued post-partum exhaustion and recovery period (exacerbated if a c-section -- major surgery -- is required, sometimes taking up to a full year to fully recover)

Normal, expectable, or frequent PERMANENT side effects of pregnancy:

• stretch marks (worse in younger women)
• loose skin
• permanent weight gain or redistribution
• abdominal and vaginal muscle weakness
• pelvic floor disorder (occurring in as many as 35% of middle-aged former child-bearers and 50% of elderly former child-bearers, associated with urinary and rectal incontinence, discomfort and reduced quality of life -- aka prolapsed utuerus, the malady sometimes badly fixed by the transvaginal mesh)
• changes to breasts
• increased foot size
• varicose veins
• scarring from episiotomy or c-section
• other permanent aesthetic changes to the body (all of these are downplayed by women, because the culture values youth and beauty)
• increased proclivity for hemmorhoids
• loss of dental and bone calcium (cavities and osteoporosis)
• higher lifetime risk of developing Altzheimer's
• newer research indicates microchimeric cells, other bi-directional exchanges of DNA, chromosomes, and other bodily material between fetus and mother (including with "unrelated" gestational surrogates)

Occasional complications and side effects:

• complications of episiotomy
• spousal/partner abuse
• hyperemesis gravidarum
• temporary and permanent injury to back
• severe scarring requiring later surgery
  (especially after additional pregnancies)
• dropped (prolapsed) uterus (especially after additional pregnancies, and other pelvic floor weaknesses -- 11% of women, including cystocele, rectocele, and enterocele)
• pre-eclampsia (edema and hypertension, the most common complication of pregnancy, associated with eclampsia, and affecting 7 - 10% of pregnancies)
• eclampsia (convulsions, coma during pregnancy or labor, high risk of death)
• gestational diabetes
• placenta previa
• anemia (which can be life-threatening)
• thrombocytopenic purpura
• severe cramping
• embolism (blood clots)
• medical disability requiring full bed rest (frequently ordered during part of many pregnancies varying from days to months for health of either mother or baby)
• diastasis recti, also torn abdominal muscles
• mitral valve stenosis (most common cardiac complication)
• serious infection and disease (e.g. increased risk of tuberculosis)
• hormonal imbalance
• ectopic pregnancy (risk of death)
• broken bones (ribcage, "tail bone")
• hemorrhage and
• numerous other complications of delivery
• refractory gastroesophageal reflux disease
• aggravation of pre-pregnancy diseases and conditions (e.g. epilepsy is present in .5% of pregnant women, and the pregnancy alters drug metabolism and treatment prospects all the while it increases the number and frequency of seizures)
• severe post-partum depression and psychosis
• research now indicates a possible link between ovarian cancer and female fertility treatments, including "egg harvesting" from infertile women and donors
• research also now indicates correlations between lower breast cancer survival rates and proximity in time to onset of cancer of last pregnancy
• research also indicates a correlation between having six or more pregnancies and a risk of coronary and cardiovascular disease

Less common (but serious) complications:

• peripartum cardiomyopathy
• cardiopulmonary arrest
• magnesium toxicity
• severe hypoxemia/acidosis
• massive embolism
• increased intracranial pressure, brainstem infarction
• molar pregnancy, gestational trophoblastic disease
  (like a pregnancy-induced cancer)
• malignant arrhythmia
• circulatory collapse
• placental abruption
• obstetric fistula

More permanent side effects:

• future infertility
• permanent disability
• death.

***************************************************************

 

Link please

 

I thought of that one as well .. but it doesn't work. I guess we can all learn something new once in awhile.

Fox came up with this interesting response as follows:

 

Does Fox Hastings have any other topic on his mind? If he is a she, I don't know and apologize. But few men have such an interest in the womb as that one has.

 

Well .. its an issue that many have strong feelings about.

 

It was arbitrary because both the UN and Congress were dishonestly DUPED by the nefarious Bush/Cheney regime. There as no legitimate basis for the illegal invasion of Iraq.

 

You have consistently failed to prove that Switzerland has ever "given in to even greater evils".

Has Switzerland become an even bigger threat to the world than Nazism? Is that what you are alleging?

Until you can provide factual substantiation of what you actually mean by "even greater evils" and establish that Switzerland has embraced these "greater evils" you have nothing whatsoever to support your bogus allegation.

 

Bombing of clinics and doctors being murdered in cold blood does NOT equate to "physical violence"?

 

Forcing a woman to give birth to an unwanted child meets the definition of slavery.