Why do Zionist apologists demand special debating privileges?

Try me .



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Oh My.
A reputation contest, with marlowe.
How amusing.

 

As I am no longer in kindergarden, your posts dont really get me worked up.
I hope you are enjoying yourself.

 

Nah - not a contest.
Wasnt it you who who blabbered :

??????


Hmmm.


Now get on + try posting something informative instead of idiotic threats


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OMG - what a pathetic cop out. LOL

 

My my, now we are name calling?

 

Cop out?
Did I debate anything?

 

Nope. None at all, Sport.

And that's exactly the point that Marlowe made, or did you not capture the subtlety?

= You have debated .... nothing.

But that is typical, as the OP pointed out.

Thanks for the confirmation, old Chap.

 

No problem, my man.
I know you and marlowe like to take everything personally - I Don't.

Have a nice day.

 

As to your list of "myths" and "history" here is a detailed response. NOtice I haven't called you an anti semite, or even an anti=zionist. I will however demonstrate that you are no student of history.


1. AS to Armageddon being on the plains of Miggdon, take that up with whoever wrote the bible. I do agree that the bible is a book of myths

2. It isn't a myth that the goals of zionism were sold to the British, that is a fact.
It is also a fact that prior to 1880 there were only a few thousand jews in palestine but by 1920 jews numbered around 76000 or roughly 11% of the population. By 1948 - 650,000 jews and 1.250,000 arabs. Economic migration from surrounding arab populations contributed to this increase but As to the number of arabs that migrated there isn't nor can there be any definitive answer. Prior to 1947 the jews purchased all the land they possessed - they didn't steal anything. As to lies, I have no idea.

3. this is a spurious one-sided statement. It ignores the reason that hagannah was formed - to protect jewish communities after the arab riots of 1920=1. during the 1929 riots the arabs killed 133 jews while the BRITISH killed 110 arabs in trying to quell the week long disturbances in jerusalem. Haganah then become a much larger organization basically consisting of all of the adults and youths of the settlements (around 5000) as well thousands from the citiea, and transformed themselves from a mickey mouse militia into a decently armed and trained underground army.
You also conveniently forget the arab rebellion of 36-38 where the hagannah fought alongside the british in quelling the rebellion and in doing so got even more valuable training from the british and combat experience for the 10,000 regulars they fielded along with about 40000 reservists.
Are you sensing a pattern here? arab frustrations toward jews, towards their failed nationalist dreams, towards the british, along with their much lower standard of living, with few job opportunities, and massive illiteracy boiled over into violence. The jews reacted each time resulting in a steady and constant buildup of military capability (albeit small arms only).

4. your contention that ungar 181 is illegal and a violation of rights etc is moot. Welcome to colonialism 101.

5. So you totally ignore the civil war that started on Nov 30 the day after ungar 181? You really should read up on that before making spurious claims. The first casualties of that civil war were jews killed in two ambushes on buses that killed 7 jews on nov 30. More jews died than arabs up to the end of the civil war that coincided with the end of the mandate. This phase of the conflict puts the resulting 48 war of independence in a much sharper perpective. The tit for tat massacres, the blockades, the isolation of jerusalem and numerous kibbutz, battles for control of roads, the fumbling by the arab high council, the eventual formation of the arab liberation army and deployment of their 6000 men, etc. etc. Studying this phase would really be beneficial to your obviously incomplete knowledge.

6. Yes some 400 villages were destroyed in the war, some during the civil war phase. The first wave of refugees left during the civil war and were basically the arab middle class and AHC officials and their families. This wave numbered approximately 100,000 and they certainly weren't forced out. the second wave of some 300000 left by mid may, some were forced out by operation dalet, some were just scared and ran for the hills, and some heed the call of the AHC. Nobody will ever know how many left for what reason, but it is safe to say a large chunk left with the hagannah chasing them. As for them being lifelong refugees, of course. The subsequent wars and such made return impractical and impossible. their descendants are still classified as refugees - the only ones every endowed with hereditary refugee status. You contention that the refugee problem originated prior to hostilities is simply wrong.

7. Your understanding of history and the timeline is woefully inaccurate. The second phase of hosilities started on May 14 with the Israeli declaration of independence. They had already been fighting the Arab liberation army and the lebanese army and at least 1000 syrians and who knows how many other foreign fighters prior to this date. Within hours of the declaration, five arab armies invaded (Egypt, Iraq, Jordan, Lebanon and Syria, backed by Saudi Arabian and Yemenite ). Again you display a shocking lack of knowledge that I can only attribute to swallowing arab propaganda hook line and sinker.

8. Ah yes the failed levon affair of 54. A false flag operation designed to intice the british troops to remain in suez which was a total bust. You totally skipped the armastice establishing the green line and the third phase of arab exodus that resulted in the further occupation of some 60 or so palestinian villages 0- a further 70000 to hit the road. The IDF was nasty and committed a number of crimes/atrocities against these arabs. Expulsions and resettlement of arab populations continued thru to 1956.

9. Illegal invasion in 1956? Nasser nationalizes the suez, britain and france go apeshyte because they are getting stiffed, so they encourage Israel to attack. the israelis were game and basically thumped the egyptian army and marched to the suez canal.

10. yes in 66, ongoing clashes with the syrians and a raid into jordan. Um, can you posit a reason for those incidents? But for some very strange reason you seem to feel that the arab shyte don't stink. that or you really don't have a handle on the truth.

11. Yes the six day war. And yes everyone knows that Israel launched a preemptive strike. Nasser had thrown out the UN peacekeepers in Sinai and began amassing troops, syria was amassing troops and tanks in the golan. Nasser is jumping up and down telling his people that the zionist have to go. Shocked the hell outta the arabs and hence they once again got their clocks cleaned. . And the egyptians were once again looking at the entire sinai occupied by Israel. Ah the best laid plans.......

12/13. Please. a peace offer that was designed to be rejected. You think sadat was serious? you think that the saudis were serious? you think that arafat was serious? Had sadat made a real offer, he might have been taken up on it, but as it stood it wasn't serious. and of course the old argument about 242 - the famous "the" debate - its really ancient history now.

14. Lebannon 1982. Not totally trumped up, but the real target was the PLO as everyone with half a brain knows. The side bennies were to be the installation of a christian government and the destruction of more syrian armed forces. Didn't go as planned. Geymel was assassinated, the PLO was let off the hook and evacuated their hq to tunisia, sabra and shantilla happened, Syria occupied lebannon, and Israel retreated to southern lebannon and occupied it for 20 years or so. sharon really screwed the pooch with that brilliant plan.

15, yep. all those shia militias became hezbollah. your point?

16. To attribute the creation of other international Islamist terrorist organizations to zionist/jew/Israeli hatred is disengenuous. Of course that hasn't stopped a single one from claiming it was their raison d'etre, but can't see Israel as a high priority for say... MNLF in the philippines.

17. Yep the occupation continues. After 55 years you'd think that the palestininans would have figured out how to get out from under, by say compromising and focusing on their true national aspirations and looking forward, but nah their incompetent leadership ensured that would never happen. And yes, I agree that the "facts on the ground" being created by Israel with its settlement program of the WB is land theft. Its not as tho likud has made it a secret they want all of the WB, the slimy scumbags.

18. Yep. the palestininans were warned that there would be severe consequences if they elected Hamas. they did anyway because Fatah and the gang were corrupt incompetents. And severe consequences resulted, which with Fatahs blundering sparked a civil war , thereby ensuring that any progress towards peace was impossible until the palestinians could reconcile their internal strife. As for the idiotic suicidal strategy of hamas to rocket the crap outta israeli territory, they knew as did the rest of the world that the Israelis ALWAYS responded with disproportionate force. So they get their clock cleaned, which was inevitable and use the ensuring death and misery as propaganda. a continuation of the failed "victim" strategy that the world stopped buying years ago. god they are a stubborn stupid lot. All they managed to achieve was a lot of death and destruction and misery. they have not advanced the palestinian cause a single micron.


Yes the palestinian people have a right to be frustrated, humiliated and angry. They have been brutally treated under occupation. they have been brutally treated under the leadership of first Arafat and then Abbas and the idiots of Hamas.
They have constantly focused on the injustices of the past at the price of their supposed nationalist dreams. I say supposed, because it is obvious that it isn't their first priority. If it was, they would have formulated a much better strategy, including a variety of compromises that would have furthered Oslo and gained them their nation.

And you sir, should really read a book or two. Your knowledge and interpetation of history is full of major gaps.

 

Judaism is a Religion not an ethnetisity. There are more Palistinian Semites in Israel than Jewish.
By the 10th centuary the knowm World had split into three politic/religio alliences. Judaism was one .............Jews though have had hard times within many societies, often their riches were confiscated and or they were not allowed to rise above a certian level or own Land. With that background Zionsim was born, their aim was that Jews should have their own Home Land. Very understand able .....but the ways they have gone about it and the ways they now treat the indiginous peoples of the Land they tricked out of the Powers that were at that time are brutal, blinkered and without concience. They started training their children to be an army, at one time, from when they were babies with the Kibbutz

Israel was a dreadful mistake, there were better choices, Zionsts through the most devious means got their wish for Israel in the end though.

None of us are without blood on our hands, most New Lands use genocide on the indiginous peoples of their New Land. That is as old as War it's self .......... it does not mean though that we who live with the guilt and regret of our own dastardly deeds should not protest at it being done by and to others now in 2012 under our noses.

There are many Israelis who do too ............. we never hear the quiet voices of love and peace over the BOOMs of the bastard politicians rhetoric and bombs though do we. The quiet whisper of a gentle breeze in a hail storm ...................

 

Saudi Arabia's army wasn't involved....

 

Many thanks for your reply, Jonsa. It is refreshing not to have a diatribe of bigotry. As usual, the exception proves the (OP) rule, but hopefully the rule will chage.

But I want to emphasise again, Jonsa, you attitude is the very antithesis of that of the Myth purveyors portrayed in my OP. My thanks.

………… to be continued

 

Egypt: 10,000 initially, rising to 20,000
Iraq: 3,000 initially, rising to 15,000–18,000
Syria: 2,500–5,000
Transjordan: 8,000–12,000
Lebanon: 1,000[15]
Saudi Arabia: 800–1,200
Yemen: 300
Arab Liberation Army: 3,500–6,000

 

I second this EMOTION!

 

I second this with all my heart and mind!

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Illigal or not illegal nothing is going to be reversed to satisfy the avid rethorics of an upstart in history.

I second this para also...

Not mentioning what the Jews have endured in their villages, Jerusalem and Hebron!

There was no occupation per se for this is the Land of the Jews in History from time immemorial!

I once again second this remark!

 

Just to substantiate and illustrate the above writings...

"The Levy Report"

Arlene Kushner

Back in January Prime Minister Netanyahu appointed a committee -- consisting of former Israeli Supreme Court Justice Edmund Levy, former deputy president of the Tel Aviv District Court Tchia Shapira, and former Foreign Ministry legal adviser and expert in international law Alan Baker -- to examine the status of Israeli building in Judea and Samaria.

That report was released on July 8. It offered both conclusions and recommendations.

What the committee concluded was that the decades-long presence of Israel in Judea and Samaria was sui generis -- that is, a unique situation. That presence does not constitute an "occupation," and, based on historical and legal evidence, is not illegal. From the perspective of international law, Israel has the right to build in Judea and Samaria.

The recommendations, which were predicated upon these conclusions, addressed adjustments in Israeli policies and practices in Judea and Samaria.

As matters stand, Israeli citizens find themselves at a severe disadvantage with regard to land ownership in Judea and Samaria:


At present, law-abiding, tax-paying Israeli citizens who bought their homes in Judea and Samaria in good faith and with the assistance of multiple government agencies can be summarily told that they are without rights to their homes because a signature was missing from their papers.

What is more, if ownership of the land on which their homes are located is challenged by local Arabs, they can be forces to abandon those homes, which will be demolished, before a court has examined the evidence and ruled on who actually owns the land.

These and a host of similar situations are outrages that cannot be permitted to continue. The Levy recommendations clearly address these situations.

What happened, however, is that the prime minister buried the report instead of adopting its conclusions and recommendations.

He sent it to his Ministerial Committee on Settlements for review, and that is where it sat. There is no question but that there were political implications to these delays. People on the left -- including many Jews in the US -- were saying that the world wouldn't like this position and it would cause problems for us in other contexts.

PM Netanyahu has been pressured to accept the report by the right flank of Likud -- including, notably by Minister Yuli Edelstein -- and by others in nationalist parties. Now it has been leaked that he intends to submit the report or part of it (not clear what "part") to the Cabinet for acceptance. While there has been no official statement from the prime minister's office, my assumption is that he has calculated that this is the right time, politically, to do this.

Already, Defense Minister Barak and other politicians to the left are close to having strokes over this report. The hysteria is breathtaking. For example, Meretz chair MK Zahav Gal-On accused Netanyahu of "serving the interests of the extreme right wing and of settlers in order to establish apartheid" and maintained that adopting the Levy report would result in "international sanctions." What nonsense, and how pathetic, to employ the libelous language of our enemies.

It falls to all of us who DO support the principles of the Levy Report to be certain that the prime minister knows how we feel:

[] He must be thanked for his current position

[] Urged to adopt ALL of the report

[] And encouraged to stay strong in the face of the left wing opposition.

Arlene Kushner is a journalist living in Jerusalem who has constantly written about crucial issues facing Israel. This latest article asks that we join in requesting PM Benjamin Netanyahu to confirm the Justice Edmund Levy report stating that Jews living in Judea and Samaria have a right to live there. AFSI, of course, has already issued an enthusiastic endorsement of this report since it underscores our mandate for a whole Israel. The email addresses for contacting the Prime Minister are: bnetanyahu@knesset.gov.il; pm_eng2@it.pmo.gov.il. Please use them to deliver this important message as per the information below.

Arlene Kushner also writes about her reactions to the Obama/Romney debate held last night at Hofstra U. from the Israeli point of view. This makes for interesting reading.

 

''There was no occupation per se for this is the Land of the Jews in History from time immemorial!''

False :- The Jewish population of Israel is made up of peoples who converted to Judaism between the 6th and the 10th centuary. Turkish Spanish Portugese and Germanic and so on .These are not the Semite Arabs of Bible Mythology/symbolic 'religious' initiation Stories.
Most Arabs who are the real Semites converted to Islam. ironocally some Palistinians are amongs those Semite peoples who converted to Islam..

The Bedouin were promised Israel. Rightfully it is theirs. But no, we cannot go back no more than sending the Irish Protestants back to Scotland can we demand that Turkish and European Jews leave Israel but we can protest at the genocide of Palistinans and theft of their Lands, that they are imprisoned in a huge walled ghetto, which is bombed constantly, which is criss crossed with other walls within it ........denying them water which has check points in the middle of their streets in places because of one house stolen by settlers and n and on and on and on they are straffed from the sea when the go to the beach with their familys and on and on ....mans inhumanity to man ................ we can protests and demand that our Governments demand too that Palistine is treated fairly. Given back it's Land and allowed the dignity of some of their own Land back. To have a Home Land just as the Zionists did ...............

 

There is no way in this world for me to start 'da capo' and respond to such an inane children fable... the above is scatological... I wish you would open a book on the history of the Jews and their return from EXILE... Have a nice day... your local library is full of books on the Middle East... BTW None of the pro Arab books do not take your side... The Jews have returned to their ancient Land and this is a fact!!!!!! Have a nice day!!!!!!!!!!!

To illustratye the above here is an article by an Arab that would substantiate what I mean in my response...


by Abdulateef Al-Mulhim


The real enemies of the Arab world are corruption, lack of education and freedom, and the Arab dictators who suppress their own people.

Thirty-nine years ago, on Oct. 6, 1973, the third major war between the Arabs and Israel broke out. The war lasted only 20 days. The two sides were engaged in two other major wars, in 1948 and 1967.

The 1967 War lasted only six days. But, these three wars were not the only Arab-Israel confrontations. From the period of 1948 and to this day many confrontations have taken place. Some of them were small clashes and many of them were full-scale battles, but there were no major wars apart from the ones mentioned above. The Arab-Israeli conflict is the most complicated conflict the world ever experienced. On the anniversary of the 1973 War between the Arab and the Israelis, many people in the Arab world are beginning to ask many questions about the past, present and the future with regard to the Arab-Israeli conflict.

The questions now are: What was the real cost of these wars to the Arab world and its people? And the harder question that no Arab national wants to ask is: What was the real cost for not recognizing Israel in 1948 and why didn’t the Arab states spend their assets on education, health care and the infrastructures instead of wars? But, the hardest question that no Arab national wants to hear is whether Israel is the real enemy of the Arab world and the Arab people.

I decided to write this article after I saw photos and reports about a starving child in Yemen, a burned ancient Aleppo souk in Syria, the under developed Sinai in Egypt, car bombs in Iraq and the destroyed buildings in Libya. The photos and the reports were shown on the Al-Arabiya network, which is the most watched and respected news outlet in the Middle East.

Related Article: Arab Like Me

The common thing among all what I saw is that the destruction and the atrocities are not done by an outside enemy. The starvation, the killings and the destruction in these Arab countries are done by the same hands that are supposed to protect and build the unity of these countries and safeguard the people of these countries. So, the question now is that who is the real enemy of the Arab world?

The Arab world wasted hundreds of billions of dollars and lost tens of thousands of innocent lives fighting Israel, which they considered is their sworn enemy, an enemy whose existence they never recognized. The Arab world has many enemies and Israel should have been at the bottom of the list. The real enemies of the Arab world are corruption, lack of good education, lack of good health care, lack of freedom, lack of respect for the human lives and finally, the Arab world had many dictators who used the Arab-Israeli conflict to suppress their own people.

These dictators’ atrocities against their own people are far worse than all the full-scale Arab-Israeli wars.

In the past, we have talked about why some Israeli soldiers attack and mistreat Palestinians. Also, we saw Israeli planes and tanks attack various Arab countries. But, do these attacks match the current atrocities being committed by some Arab states against their own people.

In Syria, the atrocities are beyond anybody’s imaginations. And, isn’t the Iraqis are the ones who are destroying their own country? Wasn’t it Tunisia’s dictator who was able to steal 13 billion dollars from the poor Tunisians? And how can a child starve in Yemen if their land is the most fertile land in the world? Why would Iraqi brains leave Iraq in a country that makes 110 billion dollars from oil export? Why do the Lebanese fail to govern one of the tiniest countries in the world? And what made the Arab states start sinking into chaos?

On May 14, 1948 the state of Israel was declared. And just one day after that, on May 15, 1948 the Arabs declared war on Israel to get back Palestine. The war ended on March 10, 1949. It lasted for nine months, three weeks and two days. The Arabs lost the war and called this war Nakbah (catastrophic war). The Arabs gained nothing and thousands of Palestinians became refugees.

And in 1967, the Arabs led by Egypt under the rule of Gamal Abdul Nasser, went in war with Israel and lost more Palestinian land and made more Palestinian refugees who are now on the mercy of the countries that host them. The Arabs called this war Naksah (upset). The Arabs never admitted defeat in both wars and the Palestinian cause got more complicated. And now, with the never ending Arab Spring, the Arab world has no time for the Palestinians refugees or Palestinian cause, because many Arabs are refugees themselves and under constant attacks from their own forces. Syrians are leaving their own country, not because of the Israeli planes dropping bombs on them. It is the Syrian Air Force which is dropping the bombs. And now, Iraqi Arab Muslims, most intelligent brains, are leaving Iraq for the West. In Yemen, the world’s saddest human tragedy play is being written by the Yemenis. In Egypt, the people in Sinai are forgotten.

Finally, if many of the Arab states are in such disarray, then what happened to the Arabs’ sworn enemy, Israel? Israel now has the most advanced research facilities, top universities and advanced infrastructure. Many Arabs don’t know that the life expectancy of the Palestinians living in Israel is far longer than many Arab states and they enjoy far better political and social freedom than many of their Arab brothers. Even the Palestinians living under Israeli occupation in the West Bank and Gaza Strip enjoy more political and social rights than some places in the Arab World. Wasn’t one of the judges who sent a former Israeli president to jail an Israeli-Palestinian?

The Arab Spring showed the world that the Palestinians are happier and in better situation than their Arab brothers who fought to liberate them from the Israelis. Now it is time to stop the hatred and wars and start to create better living conditions for future Arab generations.

This article originally appeared on ArabNews.com

 

Naturally , You would , of course second - an illogical - unsupported - irrrational EMOTION. Yids stick together - plugged together into the same Zionasty brain . Oy Vey.

LOL

 

I'm not going to bother countering what Abdulateef Al-Mulhim is supposed to have said , ( he might have said ) however thanks for admitting/claiming there are some Arabs who can hold + express their own opinions , without having their heads chopped off .

Its also a pity that you prefer to ignore Jewish critics of Zionism like TRue Torah Jews /JewsAgainstZionists and even secular Jews like Ilan Pappe/Gilad Atzmon and many , many others.
Shall I repeat their opinions and what they've said about Israel + zionism , for you ?


...





LOL

 

My own Library is of over five thousand books ..........They cover every sphere of The Humanites including History ........

If you believe the OT stories and only if you believe the OT and the Torah predictions will you believe that Israel belongs to the Jews but even then no where does it say exclusively.

If you understand a little of Anthropology you will know all three Dogmas have a 'Holy' right to Israel. Israel as we speak is bulldozing Isalmic Holy Plces.

If you know a little of even more Ancient times you will know that all three Dogmas came out of The Mystery Religions, that they are all from the same source and no not Abraham!

Ah but then you are a 'know all' ain't 'cha. You need know nothing more.

The God of the OT is The Egoist .his mother hide him in a cloud ......he couldn't see out and no one could see him.

 

Counter this then,

Michael Coren: Jordan is the Palestinian state

VIDEO Mudar Zahran Palestian Leader in Jordan is interviewed by Michael Coren

http://youtu.be/lv4U_kaEYco

Responding to the second Paragraph... Naturei Karta is a natural anomaly... There has always been traitors amongst the Jews i.e. Josephus Flavius = Yosef Ben Matatiahu, and Kapos galore.

 

Once again . individuals like Abdulateef Al-Mulhim. Mudar Zahran + perhaps a few dozen others . are entitled to his opinion., however I'm surprised or on the other hands perhaps I shouldnt be surprised - (hehehe) that you'd label " TRue Torah Jews /JewsAgainstZionists and even secular Jews like Ilan Pappe/Gilad Atzmon and many , many others., as "traitors"'

BTW Let's for a moment ignore half baked opinions and look at the facts . The Hashemite Kindom of Jordan was established BEFORE the creation of the Zionist state of Israel . Let's look at a few facts with this kwiki from wiki says :

:On 17 January 1946 Ernest Bevin the British Foreign Secretary, in a speech at the General Assembly of the United Nations, announced that the British Government intended to take steps in the near future to establish Trans-Jordan as a fully independent and sovereign state.[8] The mandate for Transjordan ended on 22 May 1946 with the signing of the Treaty of London and Trans-Jordan gained full independence. On 25 May 1946 the country became the Hashemite Kingdom of Trans-Jordan when the ruling 'Amir' was re-designated as 'King'. Trans-Jordan was one of the Arab states opposed to the second partition of Palestine and creation of Israel in May 1948. It participated in the war between the Arab states and the newly founded State of Israel. The Armistice Agreements of April 3, 1949 left Jordan in control of the West Bank and provided that the armistice demarcation lines were without prejudice to future territorial settlements or boundary lines.

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Besides the main reason why the majority population of todays Kingdom of Jordan (formerly Trans-Jordan ) has such large percentage of Palestinians is coz non-Jewish Palestinians were driven out of their ancient homeland by the invasion of Europe's unwanted AshkeNazi Jews . Eurpean Jews who for centuries was a pain in the arse to everyone else, due to their parasitic habits.
Another thiung , what territory was mentioned in your UNGA Res 181 , proposed to be partition to create your Israel, and what was the terms regarding the rights of non-Jews, ?

GO LOOK AT THE PROPSED MAP + LEARN .


Also tell , why did Jewish Zionist terrorist murder UN Negotiator/Envoy - Count Bernadotte ?

Why did the Jews kill him ?



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sorry, but the saudis sent troops and even managed to get 28 of them captured by the Israelis who held them for exchange at the end of hostiilities.